Re: [MV] Buying '43 GPW,VIN #

From: jim gilmore (jgilmore@oeonline.com)
Date: Wed Apr 26 2000 - 13:20:15 PDT


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Richard wrote:
>Jim: If the motor is swapped out, for instance by a rebuild by Bektel in
>1945 (Oakland, Ca) they would be different, no? Or at any othertime.

      Yes and no........... If the motor was replaced, then of course the
motor number would not match the frame/data plate number unless........It
was replaced by a Ford built replacement motor. Replacement motors and
motor blocks shipped by Ford did not have a motor number stamped in them.
     A motor only received a number if it was intended for assembly into a
complete vehicle. The idea was that when a replacement motor was installed
in a vehicle the original motor number would then be stamped in this motor.

       This was only for Government contract vehicles like the GP/GPW/GPA.
For other vehicles such as the GTB , Universal Carrier or civilian cars and
trucks the motor block was not stamped. A complete motor consisted of the
motor, clutch and bell housing and transmission. The motor number was
stamped on the top of the bell housing and not on the block itself. The
reason for this was that the motor number was the VIN number of the vehicle
and if the motor was later replaced the bell housing was retained and the
replacement motor did not change the VIN. Of course the motor number was
also stamped on three (two on trucks) other places on the vehicle
(civilian) including the frame.

> And what is the historical reference for the proposition that they were the
>same?

        Not a proposition but a fact. It was called the Ford MOTOR Company
and the motor number was what the Accounting Dept. used to register the
vehicles. There are many references to this and the policy regarding the
stamping and recording of motors and vehicles in the Ford production data
in both the Henry Ford Museum Archives and the Ford Industrial Archives,
Ford Motor Company.

     A quick reference; "Instruction & Assembly Change Letter #
90, 11/10/37, Page 2" states "Assembly Plants will continue to stamp the
"Engine Number" on the frame........." (Data from Ford Industrial Archives)

   Another reference: TM-10-1435 "Maintenance Manual for Ford Truck, 1
1/2 ton 4x4......Model GTB, 8/20/42" on page 5 states " ENGINE NUMBER is
also the SERIAL NUMBER. Number is stamped on top of Clutch Housing. To
check number, raise engine cover. "

> I recently registered a 1942 GPW in Oregon and was told the motor
>number was the VIN for that year. but they could not show me a vin book that
>said that.But referred me to the library.

        They are correct. However this is ONLY if the vehicle has the
ORIGINAL motor as it did from the factory (we're only talking about Fords
here). If the motor has been replaced and does not match the frame number
then you should use the number on the frame since it is the number that the
original motor had. If the jeep has another GPW motor or a Willys motor
and you use the number on that for a VIN it will be incorrect and possibly
illegal. When the nice ladies at the DMV tell you that the motor number
is the VIN they are referring to when it was built and not how it is today.

     Again, let me state....... ALL GP/GPW/GPA's built had the
frame/data plate stamped with the number of the MOTOR. All three numbers
matched when the unit left the assembly plant. There were no exceptions to
this policy.

            Jim Gilmore MVPA # 5843

Member Ist Michigan AOD Chapter MVPA
                Great Lakes Chapter MVPA
                Ohio Motor Pool Chapter MVPA
                Red Ball Chapter MVPA
                Ontario Military Vehicle Association
                Midwest Military Vehicle Assocation
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