Hey all:
Coming from the restoration background, rather than a "Mechanical" or a
"Military" background, I would like to comment on some of the posts on the
thread.
1- Rikk Rogers: thought that GIs would just mix paint up to match their
shirts...
While GIs are very creative and ingenious (Some of the field repairs I have
found on trucks over the years prove this out), they do not have alot of
variance to what paint that they are going to use. If the proper color is
24087, they get the bucket of 24087. As far as I know they do not mix their
own on site, or have it locally made. It come thru the "system". I have a
friend who was VT natl guard during the 60s and he wanted a more glossy look
to his truck, so he added some locally acquired hardener to his can of
paint. after it dried, her was court marshed (or article 15 or something
like that, he had to pay to repaint it correctly and lost a stripe). There
are some very well documented cases of variation on the unit level, but I
feel these are the exception, rather than the rule.
2- Steves comment ">I gaurantee match exactly at least *one* of the
650,000-odd jeeps that were
> built :)"
I agree, given the massive amount of equipment built during the war, and the
many manufacturers of paint, and the varying accuracy in the mixing,
preparation and application of the paint to different surfaces I am sure
there is going to be a wide delta of hues to each color of paint. In
painting parts,I have been careless to mesuure the thinner corectly and
have wound up with very different looks. Remember, I have a interest in the
outcome and am generally carefull, the minimum wage painter at the factory
man have had a hard night before and mixed the paint poorly... I have delt
with many NOS parts both WWII and M series and can point out examples of
color differences that surprised me.
3- John Seits thoughts about color blindness:
I agree many of us are color blind, but there is also a phononomun called
":Chip Scale distortion" (which I fell victim to painting my first halftrack
project.) Basically a small part painted with a color will appear much
darker than a large surface painted with the same paint. Perhaps in our
observations we are comparing apples to oranges (Or in our case, turn
signals to main battle tanks<G>).
4- My thoughts:
One of the pitfalls that restoration people can fall victim to is looking at
a 50 year old vehicle and not being able to see what it would have looked
like rolling out of the factory. Yes they were a utility vehicle, but they
were NEW. Just as a new pick up has a certian air about it when it rolls off
the dealers floor, they jeeps were nre once. As an example go the
Smithsonian (Or any museum) and look at a display of ball gowns. they look
brown with tan lace, or gray green velvet. they look as dead as the people
who wore them as they hang there. When these dresses were new and worn they
were vibrant, they were not mud colored, they were brilliant red, they were
bottle green... when the woman walked into the room people stopped and
looked... perhaps something to think about when doing a factory grade
restoration (No, I am not advocating velvet upholstery!<G>)
Anyway, just some thoughts, Got to get back to work, to pay for another case
of paint <LOL>
Hank Fackovec
Londonderry Ordnance Rebuild Depot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Malikoff (MIL-VEH account)" <44gpw@phaedra.apana.org.au>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] Help - Paint for Jeeps
> Although I applaud the heroic efforts of those who go to such incredible
> lengths to match the shade and hue of wartime olive drab, there are at
least
> two other factors that also need to be considered.
> One was that OD lightens merely by exposure to sunlight. It happened
during
> the war, and it's going to happen to your restoration.
> The other is that dust, oil, grease and everything else is going to adhere
> to the absolutely flat surface that OD is. This may darken, give the
finish
> a sheen, or both.
> In preparation for ANZAC Day and other occasions I quite often give my
> jeep a rubdown with an old sock and some Baby Oil. It gives it a spiffy
> appearance, and I find it waterproofs and toughens the paint. After a
> fortnight the jeep is back to its usual matt OD. Besides, you will not
> get any complaints from the Diggers (vets) that they don't like the colour
> of the jeep. And they're the ones I like to make happy and proud,
afterall.
>
> Basically, I'd go with the stuff you can buy that has a consistent colour
> that you can go back and buy more of... there's nothing so bad as having
> the exotic shade you bought become unavailable just when you have the last
> few panels to paint! After all, the OD that you eventually get will I
> gaurantee match exactly at least *one* of the 650,000-odd jeeps that were
> built :)
>
> Steve.
> steven@phaedra.apana.org.au
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 08:42:33AM -0400, John K. Seidts wrote:
> > After having looked at several hundred pieces of NOS parts from
different
> > time periods during WWII, I am convinced that the colors we are being
sold
> > are not completely correct. Qualifying that, I don't believe that the
34087
> > being sold was used exclusively to paint ALL WWII vehicles. I believe
that
> > in many cases, original paints were darker and lighter. I know that
many
> > people will disagree with this, but here are a few important points
which I
> > think should be considered.
> >
> > 1. Most (more than 50%) of the original parts I have in my posession
right
> > now are darker than
> > the shade of OD being sold by Aervoe or Gillespie.
> >
> > 2. I have found too many original hidden panels on WWII trucks with a
color
> > much darker than the 34087 being sold right now.
> >
> > (now steel yourself for the next one, it's funny and serious at the same
> > time)
> >
> > 3. This is a men's hobby (mostly), and a large percentage of men are
color
> > blind to varying degrees. Most color blindness effects our ability to
> > discern finer shades of blues, greens and red's. I think this drives
the OD
> > green debates for the simple fact that most people who are mildly
colorblind
> > are not aware of the fact. This makes it difficult to objectively argue
> > about original color. Recently, two good friends of mine were unable to
> > distinguish various shades of OD- I could see differences of hue, and
they
> > could not. Both of them have very extensive experience in restoration
and
> > high degrees of technical expertise. Both of them said they are not
> > colorblind.
> >
> > 4. As a corollary to the above, recently an acquaintance who is
restoring a
> > 1940 Indian Sport Scout took some NOS pieces (painted with the darker
OD) to
> > a computer matching place. The computer spit out a formula which was
> > different from the formula for 34087, and the paint matched NOS pieces
very
> > well.
> >
> > I don't think this is going to be resolved by paint manufacturers, and I
> > don't think we are going to objectively argue this out amongst
ourselves.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MVTrucker@aol.com <MVTrucker@aol.com>
> > To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MV] Help - Paint for Jeeps
> >
> >
> > >John,
> > >Although you said to contact you off List, I also need input on the
> > subject.
> > >When I undertook restoration of my 1945 MB, I was advised by Baxter
> > >(Army Jeep Parts) that #319 was the correct color for 1945 model Jeeps.
> > >Now, he advertises #319 as being up to 1944 and Rapco advertises it
> > >for late, so what's the deal? I'm certainly not going to repaint my MB,
but
> > >I am interested in knowing what is correct.
> > >Joe Young
> > >www.joeyoung.com
> > >See it at: http://hometown.aol.com/joeyounginc/page12.html
> > >
> > >===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> > >To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > >To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
<mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > >To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> > To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
<mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>
> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue May 01 2001 - 07:42:40 PDT