> Hey all:
>
> Coming from the restoration background, rather than a "Mechanical" or a
> "Military" background, I would like to comment on some of the posts on the
> thread.
>
> 1- Rikk Rogers: thought that GIs would just mix paint up to match their
> shirts...
>
> While GIs are very creative and ingenious (Some of the field repairs I
have
> found on trucks over the years prove this out), they do not have alot of
> variance to what paint that they are going to use. If the proper color is
> 24087, they get the bucket of 24087. As far as I know they do not mix
their
> own on site, or have it locally made. It come thru the "system". I have a
> friend who was VT natl guard during the 60s and he wanted a more glossy
look
> to his truck, so he added some locally acquired hardener to his can of
> paint. after it dried, her was court marshed (or article 15 or something
> like that, he had to pay to repaint it correctly and lost a stripe). There
> are some very well documented cases of variation on the unit level, but I
> feel these are the exception, rather than the rule.
>
> 2- Steves comment ">I gaurantee match exactly at least *one* of the
> 650,000-odd jeeps that were
> > built :)"
>
> I agree, given the massive amount of equipment built during the war, and
the
> many manufacturers of paint, and the varying accuracy in the mixing,
> preparation and application of the paint to different surfaces I am sure
> there is going to be a wide delta of hues to each color of paint. In
> painting parts,I have been careless to mesuure the thinner corectly and
> have wound up with very different looks. Remember, I have a interest in
the
> outcome and am generally carefull, the minimum wage painter at the factory
> man have had a hard night before and mixed the paint poorly... I have delt
> with many NOS parts both WWII and M series and can point out examples of
> color differences that surprised me.
>
> 3- John Seits thoughts about color blindness:
>
> I agree many of us are color blind, but there is also a phononomun called
> ":Chip Scale distortion" (which I fell victim to painting my first
halftrack
> project.) Basically a small part painted with a color will appear much
> darker than a large surface painted with the same paint. Perhaps in our
> observations we are comparing apples to oranges (Or in our case, turn
> signals to main battle tanks<G>).
>
>
> 4- My thoughts:
>
> One of the pitfalls that restoration people can fall victim to is looking
at
> a 50 year old vehicle and not being able to see what it would have looked
> like rolling out of the factory. Yes they were a utility vehicle, but they
> were NEW. Just as a new pick up has a certian air about it when it rolls
off
> the dealers floor, they jeeps were nre once. As an example go the
> Smithsonian (Or any museum) and look at a display of ball gowns. they look
> brown with tan lace, or gray green velvet. they look as dead as the people
> who wore them as they hang there. When these dresses were new and worn
they
> were vibrant, they were not mud colored, they were brilliant red, they
were
> bottle green... when the woman walked into the room people stopped and
> looked... perhaps something to think about when doing a factory grade
> restoration (No, I am not advocating velvet upholstery!<G>)
>
> Anyway, just some thoughts, Got to get back to work, to pay for another
case
> of paint <LOL>
>
> Hank Fackovec
> Londonderry Ordnance Rebuild Depot
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Malikoff (MIL-VEH account)" <44gpw@phaedra.apana.org.au>
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [MV] Help - Paint for Jeeps
>
>
> > Although I applaud the heroic efforts of those who go to such incredible
> > lengths to match the shade and hue of wartime olive drab, there are at
> least
> > two other factors that also need to be considered.
> > One was that OD lightens merely by exposure to sunlight. It happened
> during
> > the war, and it's going to happen to your restoration.
> > The other is that dust, oil, grease and everything else is going to
adhere
> > to the absolutely flat surface that OD is. This may darken, give the
> finish
> > a sheen, or both.
> > In preparation for ANZAC Day and other occasions I quite often give my
> > jeep a rubdown with an old sock and some Baby Oil. It gives it a spiffy
> > appearance, and I find it waterproofs and toughens the paint. After a
> > fortnight the jeep is back to its usual matt OD. Besides, you will not
> > get any complaints from the Diggers (vets) that they don't like the
colour
> > of the jeep. And they're the ones I like to make happy and proud,
> afterall.
> >
> > Basically, I'd go with the stuff you can buy that has a consistent
colour
> > that you can go back and buy more of... there's nothing so bad as
having
> > the exotic shade you bought become unavailable just when you have the
last
> > few panels to paint! After all, the OD that you eventually get will I
> > gaurantee match exactly at least *one* of the 650,000-odd jeeps that
were
> > built :)
> >
> > Steve.
> > steven@phaedra.apana.org.au
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 08:42:33AM -0400, John K. Seidts wrote:
> > > After having looked at several hundred pieces of NOS parts from
> different
> > > time periods during WWII, I am convinced that the colors we are being
> sold
> > > are not completely correct. Qualifying that, I don't believe that the
> 34087
> > > being sold was used exclusively to paint ALL WWII vehicles. I believe
> that
> > > in many cases, original paints were darker and lighter. I know that
> many
> > > people will disagree with this, but here are a few important points
> which I
> > > think should be considered.
> > >
> > > 1. Most (more than 50%) of the original parts I have in my posession
> right
> > > now are darker than
> > > the shade of OD being sold by Aervoe or Gillespie.
> > >
> > > 2. I have found too many original hidden panels on WWII trucks with a
> color
> > > much darker than the 34087 being sold right now.
> > >
> > > (now steel yourself for the next one, it's funny and serious at the
same
> > > time)
> > >
> > > 3. This is a men's hobby (mostly), and a large percentage of men are
> color
> > > blind to varying degrees. Most color blindness effects our ability to
> > > discern finer shades of blues, greens and red's. I think this drives
> the OD
> > > green debates for the simple fact that most people who are mildly
> colorblind
> > > are not aware of the fact. This makes it difficult to objectively
argue
> > > about original color. Recently, two good friends of mine were unable
to
> > > distinguish various shades of OD- I could see differences of hue, and
> they
> > > could not. Both of them have very extensive experience in restoration
> and
> > > high degrees of technical expertise. Both of them said they are not
> > > colorblind.
> > >
> > > 4. As a corollary to the above, recently an acquaintance who is
> restoring a
> > > 1940 Indian Sport Scout took some NOS pieces (painted with the darker
> OD) to
> > > a computer matching place. The computer spit out a formula which was
> > > different from the formula for 34087, and the paint matched NOS pieces
> very
> > > well.
> > >
> > > I don't think this is going to be resolved by paint manufacturers, and
I
> > > don't think we are going to objectively argue this out amongst
> ourselves.
> > >
> > > Comments?
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: MVTrucker@aol.com <MVTrucker@aol.com>
> > > To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > > Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [MV] Help - Paint for Jeeps
> > >
> > >
> > > >John,
> > > >Although you said to contact you off List, I also need input on the
> > > subject.
> > > >When I undertook restoration of my 1945 MB, I was advised by Baxter
> > > >(Army Jeep Parts) that #319 was the correct color for 1945 model
Jeeps.
> > > >Now, he advertises #319 as being up to 1944 and Rapco advertises it
> > > >for late, so what's the deal? I'm certainly not going to repaint my
MB,
> but
> > > >I am interested in knowing what is correct.
> > > >Joe Young
> > > >www.joeyoung.com
> > > >See it at: http://hometown.aol.com/joeyounginc/page12.html
> > > >
> > > >===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> > > >To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > > >To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
> <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > > >To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> > > To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
> <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> >
> > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> > To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
<mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue May 01 2001 - 07:42:40 PDT