Hi Joe... I agree with you..and also, I deal in ex government surplus from
time to time...bought at auction. Who looks after me when on occasion I make
a poor judgment and have to sell some gear for a lot less than I have paid
for it?..Some wins and some losses...it evens out over time to me making a
reasonable profit....regards colin (aust)
>From: "Joe Garrett" <j.garrett@gte.net>
>To: <mil-veh@mil-veh.org> (Military Vehicles Mailing List)
>Subject: Re: [MV] Another SUSV owner looking for a "sucker"
>Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:34:35 -0700
>
>The difference between your approach to this issue and mine is simple. I
>believe in letting the market set the price of goods and services. To me,
>the price paid at auction is the valid market value of those vehicles.
>Whatever the buyer can get for them once he has acquired them and
>determined
>that they are mechanically sound is the "right" price. I don't want
>"someone" like the government, or a committee of you and me, setting the
>retail price of anything. This is the logic of the Soviet Union, Cuba, and
>the Socialist Democrats who support nationalized healthcare, energy price
>caps in California, and "everything" in Europe. The sentiment that someone
>is making "too much profit" has caused all kinds of havoc thoughout history
>and is the underlying reason that socialism contiues to creep into our
>culture. To see what the results of this thinking are, one has only to
>look
>to the economies of Europe, Canada, or even New York apartment rental
>properties.
>
>I agree with you that if those SUSV's sold at auction for $10,000 and were
>then resold for $40,000 then there is something wrong with the auction
>process. The problem isn't with the buyer, though. It is with the auction
>holder. I recently went to the local DRMO and bought an entire pallet of
>DUI drysuits, 24 of them. They are worth approximately $3200 apiece. I
>bought them for $1 a pound, or about $250 for the lot. Did I do something
>wrong? No! When I resold them, did I rip off the buyres? NO! They got
>an
>incredible deal on those suits. The question is why is the government
>selling off new materials at $1 a pound? The answer is that they have no
>way to market the goods to the general public. All they can do is auction
>them off to whomever shows up for the auctions.
>
>I rose to the comment about buying below market value from an uninformed
>farmer because in this example, there is a victim. In the auction example,
>there is no victim and everyone goes away happy. I have bought four M35's
>and an M54 at auction. I have paid from $1279 to $2500 for them. The
>$2500
>was for the 5 ton M54 truck. When I sell any of them I will at least
>triple
>my investment. I do not apologize.
>
>Joe Garrett
>cell 425-344-1402
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: islander [mailto:islander@midmaine.com]
>Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 4:08 PM
>To: Joe Garrett
>Cc: Mil-Veh
>Subject: RE: [MV] Another SUSV owner looking for a "sucker"
>
>
>Hello Joe,
>
> >Actually, M35's would be going for between $4000 and $8000 (do these
> >numbers sound familiar?).
>
>From your numbers I guess M35s are going for about $1000-$2000 tops at
>DRMO auctions? Hmmm... maybe I am out of touch with M35 prices, but I
>thought they often went for about $4000. Since I am not interested in
>M35s I guess I could very well be mistaken. If so, bad example on my
>part.
>
>In any case, tacking on a couple of thousand bucks for resale is to be
>expected. If someone paid $2000 for a M35 at auction, hauled it back,
>tuned it up, and put it up for sale for $8000... that sounds pretty fair
>to me. The actual money/time spent out of pocket post auction could
>easily be a couple thousand bucks. Then a couple of months sitting
>around in a lot which has overhead, plus the other expenses of running a
>business... yeah, $8000 doesn't sound far fetched to me. Now, compare
>this with moving something down the road a few miles and turning around
>and asking $30,000 over the purchase price. I just don't see the two
>examples as being in the same ball park. Both are about 4x over initial
>DRMO expense, but in my mind only one can be "justified" and the other
>can not.
>
> >When did we start determining how much buyers should pay based on how
>much
> >the seller spent?
>
>OK, so what would you think about someone who moved an average M35 down
>the road a bit and then advertised it for "only" $20,000 and called it "a
>steal" at that price? A good honest business man? Seriously, how many
>of you guys with M35s would want to blindly do business with such a guy?
>How many of you wouldn't because you think the guy is a "crook"?
>
> >If these vehicles are worth $40,000 then the seller
> >should get it.
>
>Well, if the vehicles are really "worth" $40,000 then as a taxpayer I am
>pretty pissed off that our government is selling them off so cheaply just
>so some random joe can put his kids through college (at least for a
>couple of years). I mean, my tax dollars paid for that thing so why
>should some random guy get to make the $30,000 difference? If the
>vehicle should be selling for $40,000 then the DRMO reserve bid should be
>at least $30,000.
>
> >If one hundred of these were sold at $10,000 apiece, the odds are great
>that
> >he will never get $40,000 for one.
>
>Yup, unless he dupes some sucker. Which is why I raised the issue. That
>and if every vehicle sold at DRMO were marked up like this our hobby
>would be only for the rich and famous to enjoy. Gee... that would be
>great!
>
> >I am particularly interested in the morality of cheating an unaware
>farmer
> >out of something and making a bundle reselling it. I gather that this is
> >OK, but buying at public auction from the government and reselling isn't?
>
>And that is why I said "which is a different issue!". In such a case the
>buyer wasn't being ripped off, the original seller (the farmer) was. A
>different case, and I don't think that is OK either. The buyer and
>seller both have a responsibility to know if they are getting a fair
>deal, but that doesn't mean it is morally acceptable to *knowingly*
>attempt to take advantage of one or the other. Anybody that has had an
>elderly relative fleeced by such people knows what I am talking about.
>
>Look... maybe I am just too nice a guy. I believe in making a buck as
>much as anybody, but I personally think there is a line that shouldn't be
>crossed (like charging taxpayers $1000 for a toilet seat). I know if I
>gouged someone like this I wouldn't be able to look myself in the eye in
>the morning as I shave. To give you an example of me putting my money
>where my mouth is...
>
>I was given a M43 for free simply because the guy didn't want it to be
>hauled off to the scrap yard. He owned the vehicle but it wasn't on his
>property and was given an ultimatum that it was moving one way or
>another. There are at least $1000 of parts on it. My only expenses were
>my time and the $100 it cost me to bring it back home. If I can't do
>anything with this vehicle (it was burnt up pretty bad in a fire) the
>asking price will be $200 to any buyer who might have use for it. That
>covers the 2 hours of my time and the cost of moving it. But if that
>buyer turns around and sells it for $1000 I would be a little more than
>pissed off.
>
>Some might think I am a fool, but I don't think it is right to
>excessively profit from someone else's misfortune/generosity/ignorance.
>I also don't think it is right to purposefully dupe someone into selling
>something for too little or buying it for too much. If people want to
>condone it, fine. That is their choice to make. But I think this hobby
>would be ruined very soon if more than a few people acted this way. If
>enough people decide that the DRMO is a great way to get rich quick then
>this will be an entirely different hobby very quickly, especially if the
>government sees a trend for reselling 3-4 times over the auction price.
>
>Steve
>
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Aug 07 2001 - 09:34:10 PDT