From: Cor Streutjens (cstreutjens@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Apr 27 2002 - 15:11:43 PDT
List,
Yesterday a crazy kid shot 15 teachers, two pupils and himself in a school
in Germany last night. The guy was a member of a shooting club and thus had
a gun license. In Europe we need a license to own a gun, a piece of paper
not very easy to get. I am one of the directors of the shooting club I
belong to and one of my tasks is to check if people who apply for membership
are 'gunworthy' in order to (try to) avoid things happening like what
happened in Germany. I know it is impossible to get a 100% guarantee that
not one of our members is going to do something stupid with a gun, I cannot
get any police support because of privacy laws but I do my utmost to
minimise the risk involved. But now I fear further narrowing of rules in
order to improve control on us legal-weapons-owners. Let me tell you, it is
fairly easy to get an illegal gun if you know where to go, sadly. If you
want to something stupid with a gun you don't use your legal gun. So it must
be easy to see what has to be done. BUT it is much easier (and less
dangerous) to get at legal-wapons-owners so most probably this is going to
happen. The gouvernment has made a point to the public then and saved its
neck, trade in illegal weapons is blooming and us legal owners pay the
price.....
And Jack, I own an ex Dutch army M38A1, I own weapons (including an Austrian
Army FAL rifle) in a country that has lived through all the hate and
violence of the Second World War and possession of weapons is frowned upon.
And I am left wing. And a strong supporter of OD/Army green stuff. So the
combination is possible. And I don't consider myself harmful to other people
unless what they are doing is hurting people.
I enjoy this list very much and got to like the people regularly
contributing. No harm in what we are doing but idiots can be just a block
away. Hope we will never meet them.
Regards,
Cor
1956 M38A1
>From: jaxincalifornia@aol.com
>To: <mil-veh@mil-veh.org> (Military Vehicles Mailing List)
>Subject: [MV] MV owners shoot up casino
>Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:35:38 -0400
>
>"Military Vehicle Owners Shoot up Nevada Casino"
>
>I was thinking of this [fantasy] headline as I read the story about the
>Harley riders who got into a gang shoot out in a Laughlin, Nevada casino.
> In case you missed it, about 80,000 bikers descend on Laughlin every year
>about this time...and I think about 10 people were wounded, couple killed
>in some sort of a gang vs. gang gun battle.
>
>How long do you think we would be in business if we did this? If MV
>clubbers shot up that casino or if was some errant owner of armor that did
>hosed down some people? Or if some crazie in a 5 ton cleared the sidewalks
>with his front bumper?
>
>Answer: How fast can you spell "S-e-n-a-t-e B-i-l-l?"
>
>So in the wake of the big Laughlin shootout, do you think they are going to
>take Harley's away from the motorcycle clubs that were in involved? Uh...No
>way! That would be ridiculous, right? Sure. But, here we (humble MV'ers)
>are living on the edge of oblivion, where the least little transgression
>could spell our doom as MV collectors. We under constant scruitiny by wary
>bureaucrats ready to act under the guise of national security at the very
>first opportunity!
>
>I'm not talking from mere paranoia here either. As many of us have
>experience, especially owners of armor, when recently the full weight of
>the US government came down on us and our hobby. Remember during our
>beloved Clinton Administration, the import freeze on all armor/ parts for
>said/ M boats/ M planes/ etc?
>
>That preposterious and illegal overreaction was done by the left without
>one law to support them! Just memo's and cooperation by a lot of
>likeminded people in power. The freeze was brainstormed into reality
>immediately following the seizure of Jacques Littlefield's SCUD carrier at
>Port Hueneme, CA. Nobody was killed, wounded nor was a shot fired. This
>was a demilled SCUD and a truck! It couldn't shoot, er, blast off and bomb
>somebody! The worst it could do was look scarey... just like some of the
>things you own, huh?
>
>This MV posed no threat to anyone and it was imported using the existing
>rules, yet the freak show that followed still has lawyers battling this
>case! Why? Because some left-wing people you let get into power don't
>understand and don't want to undertand what we do. And worse yet, this
>leftist group harbors a near phobic disorder about big green things in
>general. The only thing that could be more at risk is the besieged gun
>owner!
>
>It's our lot to live in fear as long as there is one liberal leftwing
>Democrat in congress, but we can still try to reason and so if there is any
>good to come from this gang shoot out, it's this: The authorities are
>punishing the people who broke the law, not the objects indirectly
>involved.... what a concept! They are not punishing the Harley Davidson
>motorcyle company, Harley riders or motorcycles in general and that is my
>whole (somewhat) convuluted point. lol
>
>Sure, it's a point that has been made many times before, but we must
>continue to push that logic until it's indelibly clear in the minds of all
>of our legislators! You punish the person... not the object! That point
>should be made here in the USA, Europe and anywhere where we are threatened
>with extinction.
>
>If we are ever to enjoy any reasonable sense of security as collectors and
>presevers of military artifacts/vehicles, this absolutely has to be our
>focus, now and forever!
>
>We ought to use any opportunity to push this, even a shootout (could have
>been knives, clubs, chains, ice picks) which illustrates our point
>perfectly ... I sure hope the MVPA and our local MVCC is listening and gets
>proactive here.
>
>Jack Lee PRC (People's Repulik of Kaliforni)
>
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Drs. C. Streutjens
Technisch Applicatie Consultant SAP
Pinkroccade Industrious
Tel 06 2952 4968
c.streutjens@ind.pinkroccade.nl
cstreutjens@hotmail.com
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