From: Ryan M Gill (rmgill@mindspring.com)
Date: Fri Sep 06 2002 - 10:02:05 PDT
At 8:08 AM -0700 9/6/02, Eric Kozowski wrote:
>
>There are several systems for monitoring various types of electronic
>communications. I think Floyd was thinking of "Carinvore", which is
>an email scanning program. I've seen a presenetation by the FBI on
>how it works and it's not nearly as scary as many people think.
>
>The NSA has a system known as "Eschelon" that supposedly monitors
>all voice communications in the US.
I think this was originally only for outside the US. The NSA's
charter enjoined them from working on investigations of Citizens
inside the US. That was the FBI's job. Now with the Patriot Act, I
think this is now legal. The CIA can conduct joint ops with the FBI
and any other agency and look around.
>I would guess that CID probably subscribes to this list and others
>like it for criminal activity.
I've been involved in the 2600/Hacker Community for a few years now
as and observer (industry side/career side) and the Feds have been
watching them for years. Its gotten to the point that the 2600
meetings will sometimes have a game of "spot the fed". The meetings
are held in public places like malls and such where everyone sits and
eats and talks. Often, I've seen the person that they were pointing
out and they sometimes seemed out of place and sometimes not. It all
depends.
However, the 2600 meetings and talks at conventions actively
encourage Law enforcement to come to the meetings to discuss issues
and legal affairs. Some of it is a matter of discourse, but some is
also to be open and honest with the Feds and improve relations. The
hacker community isn't out to destroy the world. They are there to
learn and discover. This is closely paralleled with the MV hobby.
Especially with regards to tanks and other vehicles.
Perhaps the next MV meeting you are at needs to have a CID walking
around chatting with folks getting a better idea of what the hobby is
really about. The same could go for law enforcement and other
government agencies. This could help us at the next go around for a
De-Mil bill.
With enough Govenment agencies saying we help more than hurt, we
could get some sectors of the government actively encouraging us. The
Army at the lower levels is already tickled pink that they can ask a
group to show up with old vehicles that they haven't had in inventory
and have them in operational condition for their people and civilians
to see. We need to keep that up with the local base commanders and
such. Get enough of them into the Hobby from their side of it and we
might get a Pro-MV De-mil Bill once they get to Pentagon levels.
Other wise in 50 years the army will be looking for people that have
operational M60's and M113's for shows when all of them were cut up.
-- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- - Ryan Montieth Gill '01 Honda Insight - - rmgill@SPAmindspring.com '85 CB700S - - ryan.gill@SPAMturner.com '76 Chevy Monte Carlo - - www.mindspring.com/~rmgill '72 Honda CB750 - - '60 Daimler FV701H Mk2/3 - - '42 Daimler Scout Car Mk II - - I speak not for CNN, nor they for me - ---------------------------------------------------------------- - The director of Home Security encourages you to - - turn in your neighbor & spy on your friends. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- - C&R-FFL / Protect your electronic rights! \ EFF-ACLU - - SAF & NRA/ Join the EFF! http://www.eff.org/ \ DoD #0780 - ----------------------------------------------------------------
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