From: Ryan M Gill (rmgill@mindspring.com)
Date: Fri Sep 06 2002 - 10:49:15 PDT
At 12:17 PM -0400 9/6/02, Steve Grammont wrote:
>
>I find that those who are most shocked by what is happening today don't
>have a clue what happened yesterday or the days before it. I might not
>like what happens today, but I am not surprised by it. Personally, I
>still think we Americans are *far* better protected from government
We are better off. Look at China. They are in a sorry state as far as
freedoms go. Even with the Internet. Their government has succeeded
in making access to the net very filtered and restricted. Our
government is trying to do this. By
>intrusion and abuse than our forefathers ever were. Don't believe me?
> Check out the history books and (for example) see if you find multiple
>examples of late 19th and early 20th Century workers moving to unionize
>(mostly so that they could actually get paid for the time they worked)
>being shot to death, beaten, and arrested by local, State, and/or Federal
>troops with the LEGAL authority to do so. At least the FBI shooter at
>Ruby Ridge was held accountable and the "victim" compensated.
The problem is that currently we have to wait for a good Victim in
order to get a chance at making a case that portions if not all of
the Patriot act violates the first laws of the land (constitution).
Currently, Prosecutors are allowed to sign warrants. From my layman's
view of the law, this violates the due process clause as well as
title I, II and III with regards to separation of powers.
Now the FBI can sneak into your home or business with a warrant (they
don't have to tell you) and place a sniffer or key capture device on
your computer.
Additionally, there really isn't much of a penalty for federal agents
lying on affidavits. They can omit information with out any
prosecution by the law. Omit some info on your 1040 and you can
expect penalties. Omit info on other legal documents and you will be
held accountable. Not so for the Federal agents.
The FISA court had a recent opinion regarding requests that Ashcroft
had made with regards to how investigations are conducted. According
to an article on the ACLU's web site:
In its decision, the intelligence court also said that it had been
notified by the government about errors in approximately 75
applications for foreign surveillance wiretaps, errors that included
"misstatements and omissions of material facts." These errors, the
court said, led to a special meeting of the court's judges in which
the panel decided not to accept inaccurate affidavits from FBI agents
and not to allow one FBI agent to appear before the court.
That one agent was specifically named as being unable to apply or
appear before the court again. That agent's statements carried no
weight. Whats the penalty for lying in a secret court? Nothing much
for the Justice Department. The Justice department has even stated
that it can't prosecute its own people for lying in investigations or
in court.
http://www.aclu.org/safeandfree/index.html
>People don't have to be happy about some of the BS that is going on now,
>but a bit of perspective isn't a bad thing.
Most people aren't even aware or if are, are willing to let it slide
because they are "safer" according to some of the talking heads. The
amazingly scary thing is that with the BS involved in getting on an
airplane. Its that the number of people complaining are still being
ignored. If that many people are unhappy and the feds aren't budging
on getting rid of the useless rules ("drink the breast milk mam",
"sorry son, you can't take that plastic 2" long GI Joe rifle on the
airplane, its a 'weapon'") while they still let test or real firearms
and grenades through, one has to wonder if they'll ever really
voluntarily remove the Patriot act without being forced to by a court
of law.
-- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- - Ryan Montieth Gill '01 Honda Insight - - rmgill@SPAmindspring.com '85 CB700S - - ryan.gill@SPAMturner.com '76 Chevy Monte Carlo - - www.mindspring.com/~rmgill '72 Honda CB750 - - '60 Daimler FV701H Mk2/3 - - '42 Daimler Scout Car Mk II - - I speak not for CNN, nor they for me - ---------------------------------------------------------------- - The director of Home Security encourages you to - - turn in your neighbor & spy on your friends. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- - C&R-FFL / Protect your electronic rights! \ EFF-ACLU - - SAF & NRA/ Join the EFF! http://www.eff.org/ \ DoD #0780 - ----------------------------------------------------------------
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