From: Jon Shoop (shoop19@brick.net)
Date: Sun Sep 08 2002 - 04:40:49 PDT
I had a MV confiscated.........but I also had papers for it...took 5 months
to get it back...but I beat the bastards......
I can tell you from the way I was treated by the Feds...they care not about
you or your investment.
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ball" <vought@msn.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] Who's Vehicle is it? (was: Big Brother IS watching for
sure!)
> I think the answer is simple it is not what you I or anyone else in the
> hobby thinks it up to the man at the door or the airshow or event of your
> choice once it is in his hands you have to prove you have the right to own
> and operate it. I know of half a dozen people who went through this. Some
> got there vehicles back, some did not, some went to jail, all lost a lot
of
> money.
> If you are driving a 73 M151A2 and your title says its a 1973 Willys and
the
> man at your door has a sheet of paper and looks for the numbers on your
> vehicle and it looks like a M151 and looks fishy what do you think will
> happen... hopefully "sorry to disturb you have a nice day"
> I was told by a California highway patrolman that use of the California
> highways is a privilege that can be revoked at the states discretion and
> that if it is decided a vehicle is unsafe he can have it towed to impound.
> At the time I was driving (limping) a Commercial hummer home from an
offroad
> event and had a bad front end shimmy because of a bad ball joint (common)
I
> finished the trip in the front seat of a tow truck with the Hummer riding
on
> the flat bed.
> I have not heard of any confiscations in a while 4 or 5 years Back at
least.
> If you are in the possession of former government property can you prove
you
> have the right to own it? without a doubt? That's all that matters at
least
> in my thinking I need that piece of mind when I drive on to a military
> reservation in my vehicle.
> Of course its good to get a property receipt at the gate if what you are
> driving looks like what they are driving, only cleaner and in better
shape.
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonathon" <jemery@execpc.com>
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 8:48 PM
> Subject: [MV] Who's Vehicle is it? (was: Big Brother IS watching for
sure!)
>
>
> > >I think the Bureaucrats have given some of us a break. If not do you
know
> > >what would become of Gama Goats and 151A2's and a few other vehicles
that
> > >were demilled as in cut in half or rendered unoperational or sold with
> paper
> > >stating for off road use only.
> > >Just because its repaired and registered for the highway by an agency
not
> in
> > >the loop doesn't make it legal.
> >
> > I post this to the list in general, I am not being critical at all of
your
> > post Dave, the topic just got me thinking about this subject on a more
> > general level.
> >
> >
> > Since when does a seller of anything have any right, legally, to control
> the
> > use of something they sell to someone else?
> >
> > I have a thought experiment here, perhaps if you believe that property
> > rights are absolute you'd agree with me, perhaps others have differing
or
> > divergent viewpoints.
> >
> > The M151 is a good example as I want one but after collecting this stuff
> for
> > almost 20 years I do not yet have one. Concider that I buy several
> scrapped
> > vehicles which were sold (auctioned) as scrap or residue. Now I spend
much
> > time and effort and perhaps money and I put one good vehicle back
> together.
> > Is it then an M151? If I go to the state to title and license it, is it
an
> > M151 to them? I would have to say no on both question, it is a
> > reconstructed vehicle and perhaps depending on how much work I had to go
> > thru it might even be concidered home built. But to a fellow MV
collector,
> > is it an M151? I'd say yes. I listen to people talk about titling
> problems
> > and I have to wonder what the big deal is with titles. Personally I
think
> > they are useless and should be abandonded all together. But that won't
be
> > happening soon. But what is the big deal about a title being correct
for
> > the vehicle as built? So what if it says a 1996 home built truck (my
> > rewelded M151) or a 1963 Ford M151? So long as the serial number is
> correct
> > who cares? And as to serial numbers, I have talked to people where the
> state
> > refused to use the original number that was on the vehicle and they
issued
> a
> > new VIN of the states choosing along with a small state issued tag and
> > little rivets with a "W" on the head (W for Wisconsin) to attach it
with.
> > Seems to me if I had a choice between fighting them over a title that
> > matched the vehicle as built and having a new VIN with a small id plate
I
> > had to attach somewhere, I guess I'd just as soon go with a new small
> plate
> > and new VIN for the title. What difference is that going to make to any
> > person I would sell it to in the future?
> >
> > Going back to reconstructing an M151, lets take that a step further.
What
> if
> > I was so inclinded to make a body from scratch that was indistiguishable
> > from an original Ford or AMG. Is that then an M151? Having seen the work
> of
> > people such as John Geesink I would say that the right person can do
this.
> > As to this idea of the seller (government) controlling the use of what
> they
> > sell, at what point is the item you posess the same or not at all the
same
> > as the original item? Is the M151 that I got cut and then rewelded an
> M151?
> > What if I put a body together from many cut, crushed, or wrecked bodies,
> > should they be able to lay some claim on that? What then if I make a
body
> > from scratch??? Where is that line, if any?
> >
> > Seem to me this stuff is sold (auctioned) by the government either as a
> > whole operable vehicle, implying a 97 would come with it, or as scrap
> metal.
> > What I do with either is my business.
> >
> > So go another step. M60's, M1's etc. are not supposed to be in private
> hands
> > at all right? So what if I reconstruct one from scraped units? what if I
> > make one from scratch? Can the government then come in and confiscate
it?
> Is
> > either really a tank (of thiers)? Again..... how and where do you make
the
> > distinction?
> >
> >
> > Sorry to ramble on so much, this topic is of some interest to me and it
> has
> > come up before, just looking for any interesting opinions I guess.
> >
> > later,
> >
> > je
> >
> >
> >
> > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
<mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> >
>
> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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>
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