From: David Ball (vought@msn.com)
Date: Wed Mar 12 2003 - 12:21:53 PST
Can Bush Pull the Atlantic and Mediterranean fleets and 270,000 troops back
and just say it was all posturing to push Saddam into a corner? Will the
Koreans back down? What About Iran and its Nuclear plans who is going to
insure that there enriched plutonium stays in the hands of people who can be
trusted. Our buddy Osama is out there thinking up new ways to kill Americans
and as long as people with his views are free they will continue to do so.
Iraq is allowing terrorists to come and go as they please saying they have
nothing to do with them letting them live in there country, giving them safe
harbor, money and arms. Not acknowledging it makes it ok I suppose.
America was attacked 6000+ people were burned, crushed or jumped to there
death on national TV. Our Navy was attacked our sons and daughters were
blown up much like pearl harbor but on a smaller scale Marines were killed
in there Barracks. All around the world it is not safe for Americans to
travel. The Russians and French have given billions of dollars to Saddam so
they can explore for oil in the north east of Iraq in the unexplored regions
both have huge interests in developing those oil fields. Germany sides with
there neighbors hoping to stay neutral in there backyard laughing as the
dollar falls.
If Bush does pull back and America is attacked down the road will our so
called allies get hurt? Just who does the United nations security council
protect and provide security to? Is homeland security the start of marshal
law and will it get better or worse for our kids. When the Vets came home at
the end of WWI and WW2 did they not say those wars were the last ones? Is
the Middle east ever going to have stability? Is it going always be fighting
over religious monuments and ethnic differences? And if there is going to be
constant fighting and ethnic cleansing should these countries have weapons
of mass destruction?
Sounds like the beginning of WW3. Why is there no fighting yet? Is it that
most nations that fought in WW2 still lack the taste for it? Or is it this
time around the opposing forces are cowards and are using small bands of
suicide attackers to do the work? There is no clear line drawn in the sand
as to who is the enemy and who should be attacked.
During the Gulf war Saddam's forces were wiped out they were surrendering on
CNN to Italian news crews still even after Saddam lost the war he stayed in
control of Iraq. Saddam hates America he knows there is no conventional way
to get back at America so he will always give aid to those that fight
against America. Saddam will not stop until we stop him. Saddam sits with
his generals and body guards laughing at America and Sean Penn as a
spokesman for Americans visits him and speaks on behalf of all Americans.
War is the worst trait man has. War has been apart of history as long as
history has been recorded there has never not been a war somewhere we are
constantly fighting some battle. Mans ability to wage war has progressed
some of those inventions, things we on this list call toys and collect are
weapons of war. Hummers, Tanks, Jeeps, M35's all of the OD colored stuff we
love was made to be used in war and if never used for war it was designed
for it and used to practice for it. I choose to call my trucks instruments
of freedom. The truth is War has always driven technology. To Have a war you
need men and women you can control to fight a war. You and I do not have
that power only those we put in office have the power to control Americas
armies. Leaders all over the world can and do decide if the situation needs
an army to solve the problem. We the Citizens of America must trust those we
put in office to protect our families and our way of life and to use that
power for protection not evil you must ask yourself are we Americans the
aggressors? Are we the evil villains?
This will not be the war to end all wars but lets hope we can survive to
fight another day if we must because what we have is worth fighting for, our
homes our families and our freedom... America we must stand united
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Seidts" <jseidts@astory.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] The French
> Steve,
> You are right about history, but remember whose father put Saddam
in
> power, who funded the Mujaheddin and then dropped them like a hot potato,
> and who stood around while lots of muslims were ethnically cleansed in the
> Balkans. We also tolerated the Turkish solution to the "Kurd" problem,
> which was to declare them terrorists (which they rightly were) and kill
lots
> of them, driving them into Iraq; now of course, they are our deepest
> concern.
> I think that my objection to this war is the one most of Europe
has-
> give the disarmament a chance. If we let ourselves get into a conflict
> where WMD is used, we are setting a precedent that has few borders. There
> is a strong Pan-Islamic movement in the middle east, whether we want to
> admit to it or not, and I think us respectfully allowing a nation to
choose
> its path is better in the long term than going to war. Not doing so is to
> risk a spiraling security problem here in the US. Maybe not more WTC's,
but
> certainly more sniper incidents, Atlanta Olympic bombings, etc. Saddam's
> smoke in mirrors anyway- his day is coming due to his age. My solution-
> just take the oil fields, and pump them while holding the money in escrow,
> less the cost of the occupation. Saddam will be gone in a year.
> The rest of the security council is just trying to make sure we
are
> not bailing out our economy by going after the cheap oil in Iraq.
> Especially when our leaders are talking about possibly decades of
occupation
> of the country?
> Any how, this is only a prelude to what is going to happen with
> China. The worlds fastest growing economy is going to come into conflict
> with the worlds second longest standing rich economy, I'm sure. And I'd
> rather have the hands clean on the part of the US before we get into that
> one. That is the real future conflict I am talking about. Anything we do
> today that reverberates for 40 years (as a unilateral attack will do) is
> something we need to consider very carefully. Colin Powell, the one I
> respect most out of our leadership right now, felt the same way. He was
> told to toe the line...
> Then again, if our economy is in the tank as bad as they suspect
it
> will go in the White House- then we need the cheap oil!!!
>
> I think you know what I am saying when I mention the term
> "wannabees." I think we are being pretty strongly propagandized right
now,
> with the alerts, predictions of cost in fighting terrorism, etc. and those
> who are emotionally tied to military history are very quick to jump on the
> war band wagon. I am tied to it in the same way. But there are lots of
> level heads out there, with much military experience, who are saying to be
> cautious with this one; they realize that maybe this is not as serious as
> we make it out to be. I am very concerned that we are being driven down a
> road that has fewer forks in the future.
> We shouldn't be led there by wannabee power projectionists. If
our
> administration thinks that we can send Madison Avenue to Europe, Africa,
the
> Middle East, and Asia and improve the US image while we are engaging in
> hostile acts against Iraq, they are wrong. The world judges us not by the
> last two years of our history, but the last 40 years. Vietnam, refusal to
> ship wheat to Russia during famines, indifference during African
revolution
> and genocide, refusal to deal with the Indian Subcontinent crisis (which
is
> a MUCH more serious threat to world stability than Iraq, as far as I am
> concerned- remember what nationality sells you your morning coffee every
day
> and what they could put in it), and corporate ventures into China's
economy
> without end. We don't look good. There are countries out there that look
> at us as Germany was perceived during WWII, with great horror, but no real
> way to stop us. We are pretty much the strongest military nation on
earth,
> and we need to wield that power carefully- that's for sure...
>
> We might be able to keep a billion muslims from uniting, or postpone it
for
> a while. But we might have trouble keeping a billion Hindu's, 2 billion
> Chinese, and a billion muslims from fighting us to a draw if we don't
> project our power wisely...
>
> Just a different point of view to think about...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve & Jeanne Keith" <cckw@attbi.com>
> To: "John Seidts" <jseidts@astory.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [MV] The French
>
>
> >
> >
> > > I should've mentioned that.
> >
> > Prolly yes
> >
> > > Of course, that rant by me, former US Army
> > > Special Forces for 10 years....
> >
> > Thank you for your service to this country!
> >
> > With all due respect though, battlefield/military
> > experience is 'wonderful' teacher, however history
> > is a better one IMHO
> >
> > Thanks again
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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