From: Marc Strangfeld (curlyjoe98@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Jun 22 2003 - 11:25:46 PDT
Jack
I respect your opinions and you very well may be
right, but my opinion did not just pop in my head
after reading the email posted by Joe Young. My
thoughts have been the result of many hours of
listening to many sources. You can rest easy I'm not
easily duped into believing anything without
evaluation. Again, you may be right. I may be wrong,
and I welcome anybody's thoughts whether they are
absurd or very intellegent. But what I think, comes
from rational thought and being scared of the impact
of certain reforms is not irrational by any means.
You also mention leftist, liberal, and socialist
groups having a hidden agenda, and they probably do
but the right wingers probably do too. That is why a
two party system is important. Your complete
confidence in the Patriot Act and my complete distrust
of it are maybe both wrong but we are both right in
sharing our views. This is just another form of check
and balance. You are also right in not wanting to
carry on a lengthy discussion but I wanted to clarify
my stance.
Finally, the Pariot Act is just a drop in the bucket.
Sincerely
Marc Strangfeld
--- "Employee@MilVeh.com" <milveh@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Marc I wish I had about 100 free hours to begin to
> give you the sort of explanation and legal
> counselling
> that would be necessary for you to understand
> exactly
> what is going on here. But, I don't have that kind
> of
> time and even if I did, most folks probably wouldn't
> be inclined to be bored that long anyway.
>
> That being said, let me sum it up by saying you have
> far less to fear than you think. Every point made
> by
> the authors is barely a half truth, but when
> exploited
> to it's maximum fear potential the end result sounds
> pretty bad. Reality says it just isn't so and our
> checks and balances are just fine. Only criminals
> with criminal intent need be concerned, not one
> honest, law abiding citizen has anything to fear.
>
> It's a very difficult thing to tell someone they are
> being exploited and the typical reaction is get
> angry
> and defend their position, but I am hoping you are
> smarter than that. Marc, you need to look at the
> source of this information and find out their hidden
> agenda. Look deeper and to get honest, fair and
> balanced information from outside the Bush-hater,
> leftist, liberal and socialist groups. If you do,
> the
> reality of this situation will quell your fears.
>
> Good luck, Jack
>
>
>
>
> --- Marc Strangfeld <curlyjoe98@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > According to George W. Bush we would be terrorists
> > for
> > not supporting the Patriot Act. How did his quote
> > go
> > again?
> >
> > I am glad some others out there are not blindly
> > following along with the madness. The reference
> to
> > Hitlers rise of power is harsh but has some
> > validity.
> > If we start losing the checks and balances our
> > country
> > was founded on, we might as well just say goodbye
> to
> > the original constitution because it will be
> > worthless! It is not a matter about worrying if
> our
> > MV, motorcycle, hunting, etc is affected but our
> > freedom as a whole.
> >
> > I never talk politics but this DOES scare me!
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > --- MVTrucker@aol.com wrote:
> > > I gathered the below from AIM/NCOM, a site for
> > > bikers,
> > > but the way this act is drawn, it will affect
> our
> > mv
> > > chapters,
> > > the MVPA and individuals. This stuff is SCARY!
> > > THE AIM/NCOM MOTORCYCLE E-NEWS SERVICE is
> brought
> > to
> > > you by Aid to Injured Motorcyclists
> > > (A.I.M.) and the National Coalition of
> > Motorcyclists
> > > (NCOM), and is sponsored by the Law
> > > Offices of Richard M. Lester. For more
> > Information,
> > > call us at 1-(800) ON-A-BIKE
> > >
> > > REPEAL THE USA PATRIOT ACT
> > > All over the country early in July there will be
> > > public hearings concerning the USA
> > > PATRIOT Act. You all need to be aware of the
> > > dangerous precedent this madness
> > > represents.
> > >
> > > On Oct. 26, 2001, our Congress passed the most
> > > far-reaching snatch of liberty from the
> > > American people ever passed. Never in the
> history
> > of
> > > this nation has a law been passed
> > > so quickly. It took only 11 days for this to
> take
> > > place. That is record time for our
> > > Congress to act on anything. The events on 9/11
> > took
> > > the good sense out of our leaders
> > > and we need to bring it to a screeching halt
> > before
> > > our country winds up like Europe did
> > > in the days of Hitler's rise to power.
> > >
> > > These are just part of what this thing does to
> > every
> > > citizen of this country not just
> > > bikers. You can bet, however, we are the most
> > > immediate targets available.
> > >
> > > 1) Eliminates FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government
> > may
> > > monitor religious, labor, and
> > > political institutions without having to suspect
> > > criminal activity, if it is to assist
> > > "terror" investigation.
> > >
> > > 2) FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed
> > > once-public immigration hearings, has
> > > secretly detained hundreds of people without
> > > charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to
> > > resist public records requests.
> > >
> > > 3) FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute
> > > librarians or keepers of any other
> > > records if they tell anyone that the government
> > > subpoenaed information related to a
> > > terror investigation.
> > >
> > > 4) RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may
> > > monitor federal prison jailhouse
> > > conversations between attorneys and clients, and
> > > deny lawyers to American citizens
> > > accused of crimes.
> > >
> > > 5) FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES:
> Government
> > > may search and seize Americans'
> > > personal records, business documents and
> > > telephone/internet activity records without
> > > probable cause, to assist alleged terror
> > > investigations.
> > >
> > > 6) RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL:
> Government
> > > may jail Americans indefinitely
> > > without a trial.
> > >
> > > 7) RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed
> > without
> > > being charged or being able to
> > > confront the witnesses against them.
> > >
> > > What you have just read is just a sample of what
> > > your government has up it's sleeve
> > > besides the arm. If you aren't shaken by these
> > words
> > > I don't know what to tell you
> > > except bend over and kiss your sweet patootee
> > > goodbye.
> > >
> > > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> > > <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
> > > <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>
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