From: Vadim Kogan (vadim@XCF.Berkeley.EDU)
Date: Fri Aug 29 2003 - 10:23:38 PDT
What is your/lists's opinion of the SSI PCB (as compared to KDS CR2699).
The SSI box is also one-piece box (no need for glowplug controller in the
water manifold).
How much is a KDS 2699? Who sells them? Kascar only has the yellow-label
ones (which is what I have, which is 2695). The yellow label ones need the
sensor.
Vadim.
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 10:34:24PM -0400, Julian Burke wrote:
> OK folks,
>
> I see a need here to explain the starting system in the older Humvee
> 998 series and here is some scoop of the control boxes that are used in the
> older HUMVEE series. This should help some folks here. I have discussed
> this recurring problem with AMG, Wellman and KDS system engineers at length
> over the years and all agreed that this early control box is a piece of
> junk. The problem lies with the gov't specs and it took Uncle Sam over 17
> years to realize that this is getting to be an expensive ongoing problem
> that had to be fixed.
>
> Glow plugs are pretty much glow plugs whoever manufactures them.
> Wellman of Shelbyville, Ind. manufactured most or all of CUCV and Hummer
> series glowplugs for the gov't. Their engineer there explained many things
> to me which was very useful in finding problems. You see, there are NOT
> really "12 volt" or "24 volt" glow plugs. A plug is rated at say 12 volts
> for 20 seconds to reach a temperature of about 1700 degrees. This plug can
> be left on for all day and will remain at 1700 degrees with NO harm to it or
> will "swell" out. This is what they're supposed to do. 1700 degrees is a
> good temperature to get the engine to start. Now when you put 24 volts to
> the same plug, it will reach temperature in about 4 seconds which is how
> they do the "quick start" system. HOWEVER, if you leave 24 volts on it, IT
> WILL MELT or "swell" as most people say and will burn out after deformation.
> Now we get into the sorry controller that the gov't specs called for.
>
> In the old system if your engine didn't start, you would naturally turn
> the switch off and repeat the same process. Trouble here is that you would
> create a condition known as "STACKING'. You would be lighting the plugs
> again and if you repeated this several times, you would melt the plugs. The
> original controller box would NOT recognize this condition and would ruin
> the glowplugs! Then things went from bad to worse! The next generation
> controller had a propensity to catch the wiring harness ON FIRE or try to
> start the system by itself when no one was around. This box had the extra
> glowplug wiring harness that had to be installed. When Uncle Sam discovered
> this, all existing units were scrapped through the DRMO. Here is one
> instance where all of them should have been destroyed. (Like they normally
> do but noooo in this instance!) I have seen a few of these turn up on EBAY
> and either they don't know or don't care when selling them. Funny thing
> that when I would email the selling party about their control box they would
> ignore me or tell me to mind my own business. That's all right though, I
> sent all prospective bidders the website so THEY would know. A few years
> back AMG lost about 6 brand new military only Humvees in the factory parking
> lot due to this condition. One spontaniously caught on fire and
> damaged/destroyed others around it. They never really said much about the
> incident but they knew.
>
> ALL/MOST later and older units used a "glow plug controller" which
> was/is a temperature sensor in the upper water manifold on the right side of
> the engine. Its' problem(s) is that it has some electronics encapsulated
> inside it and because of the extreme temperature changes, would have a
> premature failure rate. It was a common problem and the most obvious one
> was when turning the switch to "ON", the "WAIT" light would NOT come on
> along with the glow plugs as well. You can take a new one and plug the
> harness into it (without removing the old one just to check) and see if the
> problem is corrected. Easy fix too.
>
> Kascar has a replacement controller (for about $600) with box and a set
> of very expensive plugs that are not supposed to swell in this application.
> Bear in mind though that ALL glowplugs will swell if enough voltage is
> applied to them and left on. Kascar had a re-engineered box and it supplied
> a different voltage to the plugs or would not stack. This is one way to go
> but their box is already obsolete! KDS systems (electronic manufacturer
> that makes pretty much all of these boxes) has a new, improved box part
> number CR 2699 that eliminates the need for a sensor in the water manifold!
> The sensor is inside the box itself and it like Kascar's has a sensing unit
> inside that prevents the condition known as stacking. If you can find one
> of these CR2699's, it will prevent many of the earlier problems and failure
> rates for a lower price. Also it is a direct retrofit and you just ignore
> the plug to the old controller and insert a plug into the water manifold
> 1/2" pipe thread hole. I hope this answers some questions and helps folks
> out there. If you have a question and I cannot answer it, I know who to
> ask! Thanks for reading this, sincerely, Julian Burke
>
>
>
>
>
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Vadim.
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