From: Bobby Joe Pendleton (bjpendleton@charter.net)
Date: Sat Feb 21 2004 - 12:55:47 PST
I was told by Memphis Equipment about using low reverse. The guy who builds
the transmission said high reverse would break them. I would think with as
many of them they have fixed over the years they might know what messes them
up. maybe not. It could be a myth. Mine as a manual shift valve body and
maybe that makes a difference. Mine also had a military rebuild tag on
saying it was rebuilt in 1968. If that was the last time it was rebuilt it
lasted till 2001. not bad
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts,
And I looked and behold: a pale horse.
And his name, that sat on him, was Death.
And Hell followed with him
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Elrod's" <ElrodML@pghmail.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Friday, 20 February, 2004 23:47
Subject: Re: [MV] [MVlist] New M211 owner seeking advice
This is a most interesting thread.
My $0.02,
The military did convert the 302M transmission to dextrin, the MWO
designation is AA-AB, BA-BB. The tags are riveted under each end of the
identification plate. (Now granted the likelihood that your MWO tags have
survived is slim but that is a place to start.)
The proper "oil" if the transmission has not been converted (likelihood that
you have one that has not been converted is small) is ONLY, OE-10,
non-detergent 10 weight (not 10W) mineral oil.
For artic service the "oil" is OES.
Most of these transmissions had the "check valve" removed from the torus
during modification, this prevents the truck from moving until the
transmission has filled all the cavities and developed sufficient pressure
to lock the clutches and bands.
Granted, warming one up is a good practice, I found that warm enough to idle
without the choke was usually fine, but just having the truck move meets all
the design requirements.
I have never understood where the concern for "never using high reverse"
comes from. (I welcome the enlightenment.) The only difference in high
reverse and low reverse is the engagement of the range gear set at the rear
of the transmission. All the torque loads on the primary transmission are
the same. I have a 10% grade up my drive, which is 1/8 of a mile. I have
backed my M211 up that grade, just warm enough to move, in high reverse for
over 20 years. I almost never used low reverse. None of my associates with
GMC's use low reverse, none of us have ever lost a transmission from use in
high reverse. All the fluid pressures are the same in low and high, 3 times
the forward pressures.
It is critical to keep the cooling system clean, yes heat will kill the
302M.
These are VERY robust transmissions, for this size of truck. My M211
handled 12,000# loads while pulling an M105 with another 2500#. Never had
any issues.
Low is VERY LOW, fantastic creeping transmission. Proper operation is the
key, even timing the shift from low to high while moving, is a breeze. Be
sure that the manual band adjustment is properly set. No other adjustments
required.
Dextron III works fantastic in any converted 302M.
Sorry for the long post, but this transmission has been inappropriately
hammered far to long by people that do not understand it sufficiently and
most likely never learned how to operate it properly.
I am finished venting........
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Military Vehicles Mailing List [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org] On Behalf
Of Bobby Joe Pendleton
Sent: 20 February, 2004 17:12
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
Subject: Re: [MV] [MVlist] New M211 owner seeking advice
Yes by all means warm it up before you move it. I let mine come up to
temp before it is moved far. I do move it out of the building to let it run.
One very important item. NEVER,EVER use high reverse. All ways use low
reverse.
Mine has ATF in it as well as the Memphis conversion manual shift
kit(REB) in it.You should drain the water from he transmission and remove
the front cover on the oil cooler on the transmission and clean it out Most
are full of trash and does not cool the transmission good.Heat will destroy
the transmission
BjP
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Shanks" <n1vbn@bit-net.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] [MVlist] New M211 owner seeking advice
> A slightly dirtier way to find out whether you have oil or ATF fluid in
> your tranny is in my mind killing more than one bird with one stone. Crawl
> under the truck with two drain containers, one for oil and one for
> antifreeze. You will see two drain plugs under the tranny, one says oil
the
> other one says water or coolant or something like that. I am going from a
> previous post from a weak memory.
> Loosen each plug one at a time and slowly open until oil or fluid
> seeps out, other advantage of doing this is if you get water/antifreeze
> coming out of the oil side you know the transmission oil cooler is cracked
> and leaking. This means you have to fix the leak by replacing the oil
> cooler or the tranny will definitely go the way of the dinosaur.
>
> Another tip, these trannys are very robust IF DRIVEN
> PROPERLY!! This means you must warm them up properly before you
> drive them in high range. There are other M-211/M-135 owners out here and
> correct me if wrong but it was strongly suggested you warm up the engine
to
> at least 160 degrees F. before driving....then drive in low range until
you
> hit 180 on the gauge for at least 1 mile. If you try to drive these
> trucks with cold oil in the tranny in high range you will do damage.
> Originally they used the same motor oil in the tranny as the engine 30
> weight NON-DETERGENT IF YOU HAVE MOTOR OIL IN YOUR TRANNY DO NOT USE
> REGULAR 10 OR 30 WEIGHT MOTOR OIL AS IT IS HIGH DETERGENT and will loosen
> all sorts of crap from within which will plug up all sorts of little
> important places.
> The US Army discovered these trucks (M-135/M-211) wouldn't move
> and would burn out the trannys in the winter on Korea, the fix was to
> change oil to 10 weight which allows the truck to move in low range only
> without damage until it warms up the oil in the tranny enough to flow
> freely in high range. If your tranny needs to be rebuilt Memphis Equipment
> in Memphis, Tenn. has all the parts and has been rebuilding these trannys
> for the Army and private owners for years, not very expensive either. They
> also have and use surplus test stands so they hook up the rebuilt tranny
> and load test it for one hour far worse than you will ever treat it, then
> they crate it up and ship it to you or reinstall it if you brought your
> truck in. If you rebuild you have the choice of motor oil or ATF fluid,
> they use a different clutch pack for ATF or oil and it is critical to use
> the correct oil or fluid.
> If you follow the proper warm up procedures you will have many
> years of good service from the 302-M transmission.
>
> I hope this helps and apologize for typing so long, I will now
> rest my two fingers.
>
> If you want to really cry wait till you see this truck that one
of
> our brothers up North refurbished an M-135 ( six single wheels.......10
> wheels is the M-211 model). The website below in addition to making you
> want to die when you see this truck also has a ton of very good
information
> for a newbie like yourself.
>
>
> http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/deuce/index.html
>
> Here is the link for Memphis Equipment
>
> http://www.memphisequipment.com/
>
> James Shanks
> n1vbn@arrl.net
> 1998 IMZ 8.103
> 1984 HD FLHT-C
>
>
>
>
>
> At 08:09 AM 2/20/2004, MVTrucker@aol.com wrote:
> >RAM is correct, to a point, that the trans uses motor
> >oil (probably non-detergent). That's what you would use
> >if it's not a rebuilt transmission. Look hard for a
> >rebuild tag because if it's a rebuild (probably Memphis
> >Equipment rebuilt), the clutch plates are upgraded and
> >you must use ATF. Pull the dipstick and see if the fluid
> >is red or more like motor oil. Use the wrong stuff and
> >the trans gives it up. One of our chapter members did it.
> >Joe Young
> >
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>
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