From: Ida Heath (spike@defuniak.com)
Date: Sun Jul 04 2004 - 19:58:38 PDT
Mr Bloom,
You jumped me with uncalled for garbage and then told me to shut up. I said
we could email privately and then you come back to the forum and accuse me
of taking you to task on a public arena? Something is wrong with this
picture. I have nothing further to say to you, but I will post to the forum
when I get good and ready to.
Sonny
----- Original Message -----
From: m35products <m35prod@optonline.net>
To: Ida Heath <spike@defuniak.com>; Military Vehicles Mailing List
<mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] Off Topic: Nat'l Guard Redeployment
> Let me get this straight...now YOUR feelings are hurt? A big tough guy
> should realize that the expression "verbal diarrhea" does not exactly
> constitute "all those nasty things", and is somewhat mild and poetic,
> compared to some other things I could have said.
>
> The moderator of the forum, were he paying attention, I suspect would be
> shocked that such venom would emit from a person who has sworn to uphold
and
> defend the Constitution of the US. Does your US not include Muslims? Mine
> does.
>
> And why have you insisted upon taking me to task in this public arena? Is
> there no limit to your masochism? I hate to get into a battle of wits with
> people who come unarmed.
>
> What part of "go away" do you not understand?
>
> Arthur P. Bloom,
> Taxpayer, your former employer, and Bully Mitigation Officer.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ida Heath" <spike@defuniak.com>
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [MV] Off Topic: Nat'l Guard Redeployment
>
>
> > Mr. Bloom,
> >
> > Did you catch my response to you're saying all those nasty things about
> me?
> > I thought we all had the right to freedom of expression. Thats all I
did.
> > I received no warning from the operator of the forum about the content
of
> my
> > posts. How do you feel that you can say those nasty things to anyone?
> >
> > We can exchange emails privately if you wish. sonny@defuniak.com
> >
> > Sonny
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: m35products <m35prod@optonline.net>
> > To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [MV] Off Topic: Nat'l Guard Redeployment
> >
> >
> > > Mr. Heath:
> > >
> > > I have sat back and listened to your verbal diarrhea without remark,
> > because
> > > most of it did not justify the dignity of a rebuttal.
> > >
> > > There are thousands of American-born Muslims. There are Muslims on
this
> > and
> > > other lists. There are Muslims in our military, serving faithfully.
> There
> > > are Muslims in my circle of friends. There are Muslims working away,
> every
> > > day, making this country thrive.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you have confused this forum with some other hate group. Now,
> > > please, I beg you, shut up and go away.
> > >
> > > Arthur P. Bloom
> > > Christian
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ida Heath" <spike@defuniak.com>
> > > To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:52 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [MV] Off Topic: Nat'l Guard Redeployment
> > >
> > >
> > > > I agree fully but I think you left one important thing out, export
> every
> > > > single Muslim and not allow one more on our soil in addition to what
> you
> > > > said.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: J Travis <dagobert@ix.netcom.com>
> > > > To: Ida Heath <spike@defuniak.com>
> > > > Cc: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 12:42 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [MV] Off Topic: Nat'l Guard Redeployment
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Reality? I guess it depends on where you stand when you look at
it,
> > but
> > > > > the way I see it, we're fighting this war with one hand tied
behind
> > our
> > > > > backs, much like Vietnam. We're so afraid of committing a
> "Political
> > > > > correctness crime" that we aren't allowing our troops to fight in
> the
> > > > > only way I see to end this insurrection. You want to see the
enemy
> > stop
> > > > > looping off the heads of everyone they get their hands on? Fine.
> > > > > They're so fond of issuing proclamations, maybe it's time we issue
> one
> > > > > of our own. The NEXT time they execute a POW or foreign national
> > > > > civilian, WE will not execute one of our prisoners, as this would
> > simply
> > > > > make that prisoner a martyr. Instead, we will give 24 hours
notice
> > for
> > > > > non-combatants to evacuate, and then we will pick a Muslim holy
site
> > in
> > > > > the region- a mosque, etc., and we will first carpet bomb it into
> > dust,
> > > > > and then unload enough DU shells into the soil to make it
> > uninhabitable
> > > > > for the next 1000 years within a mile or two. Then every time
they
> > > > > repeat their executions, we will repeat the same. Will this
> "offend"
> > > > > the other Muslims in the region? Oh, yeah. Maybe even enough so
> that
> > > > > they will quit smirking and celebrating in the streets every time
> > their
> > > > > neighbors behead another "infidel", and motivate them to stop
their
> > > > > insurgent brothers from committing such acts before their entire
> > > > > religious infrastructure becomes dust. They do not fear death,
but
> > they
> > > > > are rather attached to their shrines. Perhaps then, they will
cease
> > > > > fire just long enough for us to be able to declare victory and
come
> > > > > home, and then they can kill each other off in one tribal skirmish
> or
> > > > > another, as they had done before we came and will continue to do
> after
> > > > > we leave. As far as forcing "Democracy" on them, why bother?
> We're
> > > > > rapidly slipping from a Republic to an Empire under the Neocons
> anyway
> > > > > (we NEVER were a Democracy in the first place), so who are we to
> tell
> > > > > them how to run their country? If they decide they value freedom,
> let
> > > > > them fight for it as our ancestors did. We gave them the perfect
> > chance
> > > > > at it, at a cost of many American and other Allied soliders'
lives,
> > and
> > > > > you see how much they care. If we're going to stay, then we need
to
> > > > > fight to WIN, and if we are not, then we need to get out and come
> > home,
> > > > > and clean up the mess our own Republic is in- starting with either
> > > > > reforming one of the two "major" political parties to reflect a
> > > > > non-globalist, non-socialist platform that they stick to after the
> > votes
> > > > > are cast, or we need to get serious about funding and supporting a
> > > > > different party than either one, and electing it into power,
before
> > the
> > > > > Republicrat bonesmen manage to strip the last of our rights away
> > > > > completely, and we find ourselves having to fight that battle you
> > > > > mentioned here on our own streets- not against foreign terrorists
in
> > > > > wars of mass distraction, but for our own freedom from tyrrany and
> > > > > oppression.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ida Heath wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Steve,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I agree with some of what you say but not all of it. Reality,
you
> > say
> > > > > >reality? Reality is that this country was attacked on 11 Sep 01.
> > > > Remember
> > > > > >that when more than three thousand died within an hour or so? and
> you
> > > say
> > > > > >"starting up a war" Come on Steve you can do better than that.
> > > Remember
> > > > who
> > > > > >refused to take bin laden when we had the chance?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Maybe you would rather fight the war against terriorism right
here
> on
> > > the
> > > > > >streets of your home of record, because if we don't fight it
there
> we
> > > > will
> > > > > >definitely fight it here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >War is just that, war. You ever read the contract or take the
oath
> > > those
> > > > > >military personnel did? I have.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I just wish and pray every day that out Commander in Chief will
do
> > more
> > > > of
> > > > > >those stunts you refer to as "carrier landing PR stunts"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Are you familiar with all the items that Kerry voted against yet
he
> > > voted
> > > > to
> > > > > >increase the UN budget by a cool 800% ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Just so this post is MV related for sure, I have three M37's and
> > money
> > > > that
> > > > > >I want to trade for a Humvee in case anyone is interested.
> > > > > >sonny@defuniak.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Sonny
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: Steve Grammont <islander@midmaine.com>
> > > > > >To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > > > > >Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:21 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [MV] Off Topic: Nat'l Guard Redeployment
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>Some comments...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>Growing up my impression was that the Guard
> > > > > >>>was here to help with domestic problems and Possibly to relieve
> > > active
> > > > > >>>duty forces so that those forces could go fight an action..
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>That is the main role of the NG, but now a days it is often more
> > > theory
> > > > > >>than practice. However, the fine print basically states that NG
> can
> > > be
> > > > > >>deployed anywhere at any time. I'm not exactly sure what the
> > > > limitations
> > > > > >>are, but judging by what has been going on for the past 2 years,
> > there
> > > > > >>don't appear to be many that can't be overcome by the Pentagon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>The NG has been a part of external active duty military ops for
> > > probably
> > > > > >>as long as it has existed. Many of the initial field divisions
of
> > > WWII
> > > > > >>were mobilized NG units. I'm not sure about Vietnam, but with
the
> > > draft
> > > > > >>in place and the relatively small commitment (compared to WWII
> that
> > > is!)
> > > > > >>there wasn't as much need to scrounge up personnel as there is
> with
> > > > > >>today's "volunteer" army (it is much less that now than it was 2
> > years
> > > > > >>ago). Yes, the 1st Gulf War saw many NG units fully mobilized
and
> > > > > >>deployed. In fact, Desert Storm was delayed in part due to
> > inadequate
> > > > > >>readiness levels of some of those units. Meaning, until they
had
> a
> > > > > >>couple more months of training they were deemed unfit for
> frontline
> > > > duty.
> > > > > >> Note that this isn't a criticism of the NG units, rather of
> > starting
> > > up
> > > > > >>a war without inadequate troops at the ready (sound familiar?).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>I have found it really odd that the NG has been sent to Iraq to
> > fight
> > > a
> > > > > >>>war when we have troops all over the world who ARE trained and
> > > equipped
> > > > > >>>to do so who have not been.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>It is inadvisable, from a military strategy standpoint, to take
> all
> > > your
> > > > > >>1st line troops and lump them into one spot at one time. In
fact
> it
> > > > > >>might be the first lesson in the course "How to Avoid Military
> > > Blunders
> > > > > >>101" :-) The US has many small, medium, and large military
> > > commitments
> > > > > >>all over the world and can not simply pack up all active army
> troops
> > > and
> > > > > >>replace them with those who are not familiar with the theater,
> tempo
> > > of
> > > > > >>active duty, 1st line equipment (remember many NG units use
> > > yesterday's
> > > > > >>Army castoffs), etc., etc. Redeployment is also very expensive.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>When Congress asked how many troops were needed for a possible
war
> > > with
> > > > > >>Iraq the number given by then Secretary of the Army was deemed
> > > > "nonsense"
> > > > > >>by Rumsfeld. The reason is that number, roughly 3 to 4 times
what
> > we
> > > > > >>have in theater now, was absolutely impractical without a
> > > reinstatement
> > > > > >>of the draft or a large scale mobilization of NG troops. Since
> > either
> > > > > >>one would have caused the American people to ask harder
questions
> > > about
> > > > > >>why war was necessary, what the strategy was, and how the Powell
> > > Doctrin
> > > > > >>was going to be satisfied, Rumsfeld simply gave the boot to
those
> > who
> > > > > >>said it couldn't be done "on the cheap". Reality has already
> shown
> > > that
> > > > > >>Rumsfeld, and his deputies, were wrong and the military
> > professionals
> > > > > >>were right. 130,000 troops is not enough to win the war (for it
> has
> > > not
> > > > > >>ended, despite the carrier landing PR stunt saying it was) and
the
> > > > > >>military is not currently manned and resourced enough to sustain
> > > 130,000
> > > > > >>troops in high tempo active military ops along with Afghanistan
> and
> > > > other
> > > > > >>static theaters.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Rumsfield, BTW, is a big supporter of small sized military
forces.
> > > That
> > > > > >>theory works fine with a minimal active military agenda, but it
> > > > > >>completely falls apart when faced with wars in two vast
countries
> > with
> > > > > >>hostile populations at the same time. In the words of a LT COL
> > friend
> > > > of
> > > > > >>mine at the Pentagon, "I can't believe how bad we are $*&%ing
this
> > > up".
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>I know this is off topic, and apologize for it, but I've been
> > > wondering
> > > > > >>>about this since we went back into Iraq. And this list tracks
> > > military
> > > > > >>>matters closely. I have not seen anything about this in the
> press
> > or
> > > > on
> > > > > >>>the radio. I know our forces were down sized tremendously but
why
> > are
> > > > NG
> > > > > >>>troops being killed when we have active duty troops available
all
> > > > around
> > > > > >>>the world? And to get home and be 're-deployed'...
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>The standard deployment rotations were well thought out in terms
> of
> > > > > >>logistics, morale, and expense. The failure of the initial Iraq
> war
> > > > > >>"plan" (if it can be called that) has necessitated that these
very
> > > well
> > > > > >>founded principles be chucked out the window. I say failure of
> the
> > > Iraq
> > > > > >>war plan because we were supposed to have pretty much no troops
in
> > > Iraq
> > > > > >>at this point and a passive, friendly populace. In reality, the
> > force
> > > > > >>needs to be at least double its current size, if not triple as
the
> > > > Army's
> > > > > >>initial estimates called for.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Solutions? Withdraw from Iraq in military failure (not an
> option!),
> > > > drop
> > > > > >>the "my way or the highway" attitude so allies will cough up
large
> > > > > >>numbers of troops so we don't have to, institute a limited
draft,
> > > large
> > > > > >>scale mobilization of the NG (which is, in a sense, a draft), or
> > back
> > > > out
> > > > > >>of long standing security commitments in other parts of the
world
> so
> > > the
> > > > > >>resources there can be redeployed to the ME. Yup, none of these
> > > options
> > > > > >>are all that good, but that is what happens when politicians try
> to
> > > run
> > > > > >>wars instead of the military professionals.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Steve
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> > > > > >>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > > > > >>To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
> > > > <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > > > > >>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> > > > > >To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
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> > > > > >To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
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