From: Sonny Heath (sonny@defuniak.com)
Date: Mon Aug 30 2004 - 04:42:07 PDT
You're a "Trip" Steve.
Sonny
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Grammont <islander@midmaine.com>
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] Fw: OT Political: Bring it on, John!!!
> Agreed. Keep it off list, please. Not unless you want to see a diatribe
> from me about how relevant I think the ramblings of a convicted felon who
> peed all over the US Constitution is to the health and well being of the
> USA. Or what my thoughts are on the record of a National Guard AWOL, war
> avoiding coke head party boy compares to someone who actually served his
> country (even if for "4 months").
>
> Steve
>
> >Spare us this stuff for gods sake, its mind numbing in its dullness.
> >Along with many of the esteemed readers of this bugle I don't give a toss
> >whether or not Kerry fought for the Germans in the far east or is a
former
> >porn star. If it aunt about military vehicles its in the wrong
> >trench.......... please desist before we unleash Boris Johnson on you
all.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Royce C Hayes" <rc_hayes1@juno.com>
> >To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> >Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:28 AM
> >Subject: [MV] Fw: OT Political: Bring it on, John!!!
> >
> >
> >> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> >>
> >> Bring it on, John
> >>
> >> Oliver North (archive)
> >>
> >> August 27, 2004
> >>
> >> "Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question
my
> >> service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded
attack
> >> group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our
> >> service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John
Kerry
> >>
> >> Dear John Kerry,
> >>
> >> As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President
George
> >> Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your
> >> military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who
served
> >> honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the
> >> president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.
> >>
> >> I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals
or
> >> how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I
> >> only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I
> >> could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might
> >> agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers
> >> always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never
> >> got as many medals as they deserved.
> >>
> >> This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either,
> >> John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home.
There
> >> are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who
did
> >> a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young
> >> Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to
war
> >> because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job
isn't
> >> finished."
> >>
> >> Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968.
> >> Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say
> >> so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really
weren't
> >> in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president
> >> when you thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how
> >> you could have all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory --
> >> especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear
> >> trigger.
> >>
> >> But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having,
> >> John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost --
or
> >> even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home,
> >> John.
> >>
> >> When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and
> >> wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and
> >> were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of
> >> all, John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in
Vietnam --
> >> of committing terrible crimes and atrocities.
> >>
> >> On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations
> >> Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally
> >> raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable
telephones
> >> to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up
> >> bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion
reminiscent
> >> of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks,
and
> >> generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted
on
> >> television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as
> >> thousands of other soldiers have committed."
> >>
> >> And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any
other
> >> body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of
> >> prisoners, the killing of prisoners."
> >>
> >> Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us
> >> carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And
> >> for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who
> >> suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of
> >> American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them
> >> endured because of you, John:
> >>
> >> Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody
> >> when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says
> >> that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be
> >> punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.
> >>
> >> Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody
> >> for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner
> >> about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was
released
> >> March 4, 1973.
> >>
> >> Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as
> >> solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He
> >> remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.
> >>
> >> John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about
your
> >> claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of
> >> standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a
> >> bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean
> >> you are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either
> >> way, you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less
> >> commander in chief.
> >>
> >> One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say
> >> something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I
> >> caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to
> >> help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was
> >> thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt
> >> them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."
> >>
> >> Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >> "...there is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb, and that
can
> >> best be made by the Winchester rifle." - Teddy Roosevelt, 1887
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