From: Steve Grammont (islander@midmaine.com)
Date: Wed Nov 24 2004 - 11:11:04 PST
Bruce,
Have faith in the system. An early tactic of the insurgents was to ram
into checkpoints or otherwise get into one and detonate a bomb. So our
guys established a no tolerance policy for non-complying vehicles. If
you recall our guys killed a whole bunch of innocents, including a family
or two, at various checkpoints early on. The reason? They Iraqis had
not quite caught onto the concept of "be careful around soldiers with 2
hours of sleep who just buried their dead that morning". Wee shared some
of the blame for this. Innocents were killed, incidents investigated,
SOPs changed, no soldiers charged.
I don't know which column this Marine's actions fall into, but it should
be investigated and the chips fall where they fall. This soldier is
innocent until proven guilty, but in order to do that this has to be
investigated. Isn't like all of our soldiers are acting the way they
should (instances of outright murder, prisoner abuse, looting, etc.
documented and disciplined).
Steve
>You are right Dave. I reacted from bitter experience instead of thinking
>it thru.
>However it is very difficult to react any other way considering the
>sittuation
>these Marines are in. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that I would have
>instinctively
>reacted in a similar manner if I thought I or my fellow Marines were
>in danger.
>I might have regretted it afterward, since I don't see any point in
>senseless killing,
>but it appears from this that that might not have been the case.
>Hopefully they
>will carry out the investigation properly and clear this Marine,
> assuming he did act properly.
>Bruce
>
>David Cole wrote:
>
>>The military should investigate and determine whether he acted properly or
>>not without all of the hoopla.
>>
>>Just to say the guy did the right thing without a full investigation would
>>be wrong.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:45:25 -0800, Bruce C. Beattie
>><bruce@eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I agree 100 percent.
>>>Bruce MVPA 23824
>>>Nam era Marine
>>>
>>>Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Marine did the right thing. The terrorist he shot
>>>>was not a prisoner, was not attempting to surrender
>>>>and was not a lawful combatant under the Geneva
>>>>Convention. The squad had other rooms to clear, and
>>>>couldn't afford to leave an enemy in their rear.
>>>>
>>>>We've had our soldiers shot at by Iraqi's waving white
>>>>flags, playing dead, booby trapping the dead and dying
>>>>and most recently Lance Cpl. Jeramy Ailes was just
>>>>shot to death by an Iraqi who was playing possum. As
>>>>Navy Seal put it, "This is a safety issue pure and
>>>>simple, after assaulting through a target, you put a
>>>>security round in everybody's head." Sounds ok to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's why I support that Marine and find it hard to
>>>>understand why any decent, thinking person wouldn't,
>>>>regardless of his home country. I signed that
>>>>petition, not a problem. If it was off topic, this
>>>>was one of those RARE times I think we should make an
>>>>exception, not raise a flap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--- Sando <asando@prtc.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's everybody's duty to sign the petition!! Hell yes this is the right
>>>>>forum, please pass it
>>>>>on!!!
>>>>>Sando
>>>>>
>>>>>From: "Jack" <milveh@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List"
>>>>><mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:36 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [MV] WARNING!!! O-T petition in support
>>>>>of Marine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for bringing this to my attention Nigel. I
>>>>>>signed it, no problems!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would have gladly done the same thing that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Marine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>did, only without the TV camera rolling, that was
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>his
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>only mistake as far as I am concerned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- Nigel Hay -MILWEB <Nigel@milweb.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sorry, it looks like you sent this to the wrong
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: Military Vehicles Mailing List
>>>>>>>[mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org]On
>>>>>>>Behalf Of Richard J. Thiers, Jr.
>>>>>>>Sent: 18 November 2004 14:41
>>>>>>>To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
>>>>>>>Subject: [MV] WARNING!!! STAND-BY WITH DELETE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>KEY!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi List,
>>>>>>>This petition is in support of the Marine who
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>shot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>the terrorist who was
>>>>>>>"playing" dead. The anti-American forces inside
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>outside this country
>>>>>>>want this soldier punished. Please READ the
>>>>>>>petition, and sign it.
>>>>>>>Thank you,
>>>>>>>Rick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.petitiononline.com/as123/petition.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rick Thiers
>>>>>>>M.V. Sales & Hardware
>>>>>>>1035B Fallowfield Rd.
>>>>>>>Atglen, Pa. 19310 USA
>>>>>>>610-593-1218 8-6 EST
>>>>>>>http://www.mvsalesandhardware.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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