From: hellcat@provide.net
Date: Tue Nov 30 2004 - 08:48:26 PST
O.K. folks since I live 15min from the CAnuck border i see
lots of this misinformed venom from literally hundreds of
Can's coming across to shop and vacation etc. here in
Michigan .....they can all go home for what most of us in
MI care. I can easily and FACTUALLY refute most all your
"talking points" Rob but I wont waste this forum doing
so....
BUT I WILL NOT take your anti- American BS laying down with
my bretheren fighting and dieing.... Just remember the
vehicles you covet were piloted by MEN who thanfully DID
NOT think like you.... now go back to France.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:50:29 -0500
"Robdab in Toronto" <robdab@look.ca> wrote:
> Jack,
>
> I know that you're all full of patriotism and completely
> support everything
> that your government does/says BUT most of the rest of
> the world doesn't see
> it that way. Your first clue would be the very small
> number of allies that
> you have in Iraq this time around, and your second, the
> large number of US
> body bags continuing to come home. It seems that either
> they don't want your
> style of freedom or that they are sick of burying their
> wives and children.
>
> The film clip that I watched on Al Jazera via satellite
> doesn't show the
> same scene that you describe at all. I believe that your
> government
> prohibits that network from being broadcast in the US,
> maybe they are afraid
> of a different slant on the nightly news ? So lets agree
> to disagree until
> the report comes out. I wonder how many months or years
> that will take ?
>
> So far the US military/Bush have been surprisingly good
> at ferreting out the
> truth AFTER the fact:
> -Saddam is sponsoring Al Queda in Iraq ...he didn't.
> -Saddam has chemical WMDs ..................he didn't
> -Saddam has biological WMDs..................he didn't
> -Saddam has nuclear WMDs......................he didn't
> -We're not torturing prisoners in an Iraqi prison ...
> oops, I -guess we
> were.
> -We're holding terrorists in Gitmo, without
> charges,trials or access to a
> lawyer .... we'll, we've had these guys locked up for 3
> years and can't find
> any proof of anything so lets release 400 of them back to
> their families.
> -The war is over ..................................its
> only just begun.
> -We invaded to bring freedom to the people of Iraq
> ........damn, why do they
> continue to blow up the oil pipelines that we are working
> so hard to repair
> ? I guess we'll have to flatten a few cities to show them
> who's the boss of
> their freedom.
>
> I wouldn't suggest for a second that Saddam was a nice
> guy. I'm glad that
> he's out of power, that he's under arrest ... the trial
> should be
> interesting, if he lives to get to it. I'd like to hear
> the details of how
> the US supported him in power as a counterforce to Iran.
> Just what did the
> US know and when about his abuses ? I think that the term
> in the US legal
> system is "accessory before the fact".
>
> Don't you realize that nearly everything that the US does
> now, plays into
> the hands of Al Queda ? Iraq has already become another
> Vietnam. The video
> of countless destroyed homes in Falluja just convinces
> more suicide bombers
> that the US has invaded their homeland to grab the oil.
> 500 weapons caches ?
> I bet that if you searched a US city the size of Falluja,
> you'd find ALOT
> more than 500 weapons. Its a dangerous world out there. I
> think that its
> your 2nd (?) amendment to the constitution that allows
> every citizen the
> right to bear arms ? Would you want the free citizens of
> Iraq to be any less
> free than you are ? Or unarmed so that they can be kicked
> around if they
> raised the price of crude oil at the wellhead ?
>
> CNN last night reported an estimated 60,000 civilian dead
> in Iraq. But
> they died free so that makes it ok, right ?
>
> If Bush wasn't leading the world's only superpower, he'd
> be up on warcrimes
> charges right now.
>
> Face it man, the American people were lied to for oil
> and now there's no
> way out of the quicksand. The brass will pour in more
> troops, more
> firepower, more technology. At least you won't have to
> use more Agent Orange
> to defoliate the countryside. The Muslims will continue
> to die in huge
> numbers just like those occupied during WW2. Dying for
> what they believe to
> be THEIR freedom, not a US imposed one. They will
> continue to take Americans
> with them and eventually, the voters back home will say
> "enough, bring the
> troops home", just like Vietnam. Doesn't anyone learn
> from history ?
>
> I suspect that Iraq will come to be regarded as the first
> of the "resource
> wars". 1st world nations taking the raw materials that
> they need from the
> 3rd world, by force instead of buying them as is the
> usual "American way".
> Water wars will be next (Canada, look out ! No doubt
> we'll be occupied
> because we might be a terrorist gateway into the US, and
> we have oil as a
> bonus !) with food to follow as ocean levels rise and
> some of the world's
> best farmlands get flooded by salt water and punished by
> hurricanes. More
> and more nations will develop nuclear warheads, not
> because they plan to
> invade the US but because they will need to defend
> themselves from you.
>
> Would the 1776 American War of Independence have been as
> successful if the
> French had invaded and kicked out the English before the
> 13 colonies were
> ready to stand on their own feet ? Would the US be the
> great nation that it
> is today if they had been "given their freedom"
> instead of earning it ? Or just a poor copy of a French
> colony ? What will
> Iraq become ? A free democratic bastion or a barrel of
> oil thrown away after
> it has been sucked dry ? The world expects the later
> (especially if
> Haliburton is involved - they're even ripping off their
> own side in this war
> but then ... how American is that ? ).
>
> I suggest that we continue this debate off-list so that
> we don't further
> annoy those that want to talk about MVs.
>
> Robert
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jack" <milveh@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List"
> <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MV] Fallujah action - Very O.T.
> >
> >
> > > My appologies, but I have to say this:
> > >
> > > Rob, with all due respect, it would be absolutely
> > > irresponsible of you to repeat such a story unless
> you
> > > know it to be the truth.
> > >
> > > Were you aware the video in question doesn't show the
> > > guy with his hands in plain view behind his back and
> > > handcuffed? (That should have been your first clue)
> > >
> > > Did you also know there were 3 terrorists lying there
> > > and after this one was shot while faking being dead,
> a
> > > 3rd guy lying next to him suddenly outstretches his
> > > hand to show he is alive and he is not faking it and
> > > he was coincidentally NOT shot ... let me repeat, not
> > > shot! Why? Because he outstreches his empty hand
> Rob
> > > to show his intentions. A free, empty hand and a
> hand
> > > not handcuffed. This much has been made public with
> > > the video.
> > >
> > > A fair question, if you still believe your version,
> is
> > > why would one allegedly be cuffed up and the other
> > > not?
> > >
> > > Another good question is why didn't they shoot that
> > > wounded guy too?
> > >
> > > I look forward to getting these answers from the
> > > official investigation, not from the tabloids. I
> > > suspect you're a better person than to play into the
> > > hands of Al Queda and that this was all a momentary
> > > lapse of judgement.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Robdab in Toronto <robdab@look.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My understanding is that the insurgent that was
> shot
> > > > had his hands cuffed
> > > > behind his back and was lying face down on the
> floor
> > > > with his hands in plain
> > > > view. He had been wounded the day before and left
> in
> > > > cuffs for over 24 hours
> > > > without any medical attention before being murdered
> > > > by being shot in the
> > > > head.
> > > >
> > > > Hardly a threat to anyone.
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
>
>
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