Re: [MV] Improvised armor for MV in Iraq

-Disclaimer, this is my opinion, it may not be like yours-

Improvised armor, Well I am not too keen on the idea of hanging anything off the bottom of the vehicle for some reason.  Maybe that is why its not done.  I would think that improvising something is just that, getting the job done with what you have around you, right?  Well, other than just adding more armor with gaps between it would be about all that can be improvised around here.

Though on the other hand the stuff that we have IS capable to protect to its desired manufacture, or its intended purpose.  If you are having a problem with your hostile nation making the bombs bigger, then you need better armor.  Improvised armor right.  Which is where we stand still.  We added armor, they make them bigger, we add more armor, they make em BIGGER.  Hey dont we have tanks for that????  Just my opinion.  I may have no idea what I talk about, just sitting here reading 100's of reports daily about how well/well-not something has worked.  I see both sides of it.  Its all dependant upon the IED.  Armor is armor is armor.  Vehicles are intended for a purpose, not for the war that they may be thrown into.  ADD-ON-Armor is just that, ADD ON!  We do have Armored stuff that works THE BEST IN THE WORLD FOR ITS INTENDED MANUFACTURE.

So for a solution to the question, "just add more of what you have".  That is the simple answer.  What we have been doing is great work.  Dont let the press tell you anything different.  If I do my own research, I will come up with my desired scare tactic.

Take this for instance, MILK IS BAD FOR YOU!!!!  I found that milk (any grade) is bad for you and can cause cancer, (and then I list about 12 other diseases it helps out, progresses, or turns into)  My research is FOR this intent, its not to show you anything but the bad about it.  This is what this whole arguement about armor over here has been.  Of course we will want MORE armor, we are encountering HUGE IED's that defeat the stuff ocassionally.  Its that ocassion that we want more.  DUH!!!!!

Guys come on, we got this armor thing beat up enough.  It needs to be laid to rest.  AMG is armoring 400 a month from the factory to be scattered across the services.  Its the best you can do with a Hummer.  Which is an all around vehicle, NOT AN ARMORED CAR. 

 Ask yourself this: If tanks are being defeated, what would you do then with its armor??  Think about it, dont just answer the question, THINK!  (this is under the assumption that a tank is the most heavily armored thing out there)

I will leave it at that.

From: JTravis <dagobert@ix.netcom.com> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org> Subject: Re: [MV] Improvised armor for MV in Iraq Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 01:59:35 -0600 Jack wrote: >Here's a crazy thought that just might work. On the >M35, one of the major problems for installing floor >armor is the lack of areas to mount it. How about >hanging a steel sheet under the vehicle with chains >and installing sandbags on it? I bet you would still >have a good foot of clearance between the axles and >cover the whole area of the cab floor. Might not have >the room on a HMMWV, but its a start. > >Clearance is not a big issue in a flat, paved urban >area, but a bomb dug into the road is, right? > >===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list=== >To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org> >To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to ><mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org> >To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org> > > > I know this thread has gone a lot further, but back to the original idea of improvised armor- Instead of hanging a plate on chains and putting sandbags on top of it, what about something like this- an outer plate surrounding a series of metal tubes filled with something thick, like asphalt sealer, and lightly capped on the ends that would hold in the liquid but release under pressure, mounted on top of an inner plate that mounts to the body on a series of short studs spaced about one every square foot or so, that each has some sort of small spring set (valvesprings, or some such) between the inner plate and the body itself. While this wouldn't likely stop a buried arty shell from underneath, at least on the sides it might help with an RPG hit. Assuming that my limited understanding of how an RPG penetrates by a hollow shaped charge that creates a focused inner cone of plasma that burns through to penetrate, the outer plate would take the detonation, and when the plasma penetrates this, it would then burn into the tube and some of its energy would be absorbed by both the liqud asphalt sealer and also a portion of its energy redirected along the path of the tube, and then hopefully the suspension mounting of the inner plate would also assist in dissipating some more of the energy, with the cumulative effect at least helping in adding some survivablity to the vehicle while not adding too much extra weight (compared to the same amount of energy absorbed by just using thicker plating). The other advantage would be that the only materials needed (liquid asphalt sealer, pipe, something to loosely cork the ends of the pipes with, spare valvesprings, some plate and a welder) could hopefully be procured in country. Cliff, I don't know if this would work or not, and since I really don't have any way to test it here (no RPGs lying around, and even if I did, the BATF guys would not likely have any sense of humor about that sort of thing in a residential neighborhood) do you think it might be worth a try to mock one up and test it over there, to see if it might help? Nothing is a cure-all, of course, but if it helps even one more guy over there be able to survive taking a hit and being able to fight back without being wounded, then it's worth trying to find some way to help. P.S. Glad you found the missing radiator for your bike. Jay Travis ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list=== To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org> To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>