From: Ron (rojoha@adelphia.net)
Date: Mon Mar 14 2005 - 12:36:13 PST
Verne (and listers new to the M44 series) , here are some messages from the
past when I was having trouble with my "new" deuce, which coincidentally was
4 years ago today when my appeals were made to the list.
Hope they are of some help.
Ron
[MV] M35 Won't Start
From: Ron (rojoha@mediaone.net)
Date: Wed Mar 14 2001 - 15:38:19 PST
I have an M35A2 with a non turbo LD 465-1C that won't start. Pump in tank
is working. I get a good stream of fuel at air purge valve on top of
secondary fuel filters. When I loosen the injector lines to the injectors
(one at a time) while cranking, we only get a dribble or two out, no spray.
You can see fuel flowing through the clear plastic line to the flame heater
when the heater switch is toggled. Would clogged secondary fuel filters
give this type of symptom, or could this indicate a problem with the
injection pump? DRMS personnel say they drove it into place about 6 to 8
months ago, and it ran fine. Fuel tank is almost full and primary filter,
when drained at petcock, is clear, clean fuel. While cranking, the stack
gives off puffs of white smoke.
Ron
WAS: [MV] M35 starting problem Now M35 Stopping Problem
From: Ron (rojoha@mediaone.net)
Date: Sun Mar 18 2001 - 10:16:00 PST
First, Thanks to all who replied to my first post and especially to David
Doyle who nailed the problem.
A recap for those interested. I bought an M35A2 and it was a no starter.
It cranked and ran on ether, but had no fuel at injectors. Fuel recirculated
to the tank, so filters are ok. Got it home and removed cover for Engine
Stop cable and found linkage inside injector wouldn't move. Tapped it into
start position, replaced cover and cranked it and it starts, followed by a
runaway with no joy when engine stop pulled. Luckily, a friend who knew
more about diesels was there and suffocated the air cleaner with no damage
to engine.
After cleaning out our collective shorts, we did three more starts and
kills. This was after adding 1 gallon of Marvel Mystery oil to crank case
and spraying PB rust buster into injector housing where the rod/linkage goes
into the stop plate/ governor housing and working the rod back and forth by
tapping on the end of a screw driver with a mallet.
There was no throttle pedal response nor did there seem to be any
governor in effect. We left it last night with the linkage still bound
up,hopefully to soak and loosen up for today.By my figuring,the linkage to
the stop plate should move by finger pressure. Game plan for today, if it
hasn't loosened up, is to tap it to the closed position then tap it opened a
little and try to get it running at a 700-900 RPM, put the stop cable/timing
cover back on and let it run for an hour or two to circulate the Marvel
Mystery oil mix to work its magic. Anyone see any holes so far?
I've had contact with a guru, but won't be able to talk on the phone
with him until later on this week. To save some time and some of you from
asking questions that I've already answered to the Rabbi, I include my
answer to him. Any input from ya'll would be appreciated.
Ron
PS And for savage amusement, it has Silicone brake fluid, full master
cylinder and no brakes( peddle to the floor, rotten plum syndrome).
FEEL FREE TO LEAVE NOW OR HIT DELETE...
Good morning:
Thanks for being willing to accept my call.
I have downloaded the injection pump manual (TM 9-2910-226-34)and all of
the engine (TM 9-2815-210-34-1,-2-1, -2-2,and -34P) and truck manuals (TM
9-2320-209-10-1,-H,-2,-3,-4,and -20-2-1,-2, 20-3-1, -2,-3,-4, -20P and
the -34 series{5 manuals}). Also, most of the TM 9-2320-361-XX {M44A2}series
and even most of the 9-2320-386-XX (M44A3) series manuals.
Then to make sure I speak Army mechanic speak, I downloaded the TM
9-8000 (Principles of Automotive Vehicles series) and the Light Vehicle
Mechanic (FM series) training manuals.
Thank God for ETM Online and Roadrunner and a laptop and a night job
that allows me to read (or graze) through all of the above and more. As I
download each manual, I go to the references page, make note of what TM's I
don't have and chase them down. I presently have over 1.3 Gigabyte of
downloaded manuals (70,000+ pages )
between the laptop(527 Mb) and the desk machine. I am also a firm believer
in "Without the manuals your you are whistling in the dark, but with them
comes the power to F**k Up your equipment beyond repair due to over
confidence." So I look for Rabbis to talk to, who have been to the Mount,
and heard the word from Sgt. Half-mast
themselves.
Unfortunately, the diesel world is new ground, and injection pumps seem
to be the holy of the holiest. The trouble shooting and maint. manuals
glibly state " Step 1, remove engine from vehicle and place in test stand
and check belts for tightness" if the engine is showing evidence of
overheating. For the Injection pump, they talk about how critical timing of
the pump and engine is and how it can be set only "in the stand, attached to
a dyno" after removal and before replacement and the pump must be setup " on
the test console " after most disassembly steps. These statements are enough
to raise the hackles on the back of my neck. Kind of like the old maps with
the words "Beyond here might lie Monsters".
I bought this truck from (MR. X) because he told me "This is the best
condition truck of all I bought and will probably start right up once you
put batteries in it." It was the most expensive of them all because of it's
pristine condition, and I got to his door before anyone else, so got first
pick. It was a no brainer. Unfortunately, to both of our chagrin, it
appears to be one of only three or so of all he bought that wouldn't start
or run. He has been very good about it, offering to return my money if I
would like and calling to see what progress I am making on it. But everyone
agrees, it should be a good truck. Every other truck he bought had some
deficiency, parts broken or missing. This one sat primly in line, nice
paint, little rust, excellent rubber, unripped canvas top and seats, Brand
new complete, very recent replacement of both windshields and frames and
instrument panel, NO stripped parts. Full fuel tank, winch, heater, air
shift front axle, new muffler and master cylinder. The truck I passed on, my
friend bought, put batteries in it, checked all fluids and drove it out of
the line to the parking lot. When our trailer truck failed to show, he went
and got a temp plate and drove it home (65 miles) behind the wrecker towing
mine. His "turd" ran like it just came out of the ORG Support instead of the
deadline.
The joke in our club is that my truck has the equivalent of mechanical
hoof and mouth disease, so to keep the infection from spreading, they took
nothing off it. And if you have a choice on anything, ask Ron which one he
would buy, then buy the other.
Anyways, I will give you a call this week, probably Monday night.
TIA, Ron
[MV] It's...It's ....ALIVE!!!! (M35A2 story)
From: Ron (rojoha@mediaone.net)
Date: Sun Mar 18 2001 - 20:26:07 PST
It LIVES !!! My recalcitrant M35A2 w/winch runs!
Plan of just nudging stop control linkage open through the timing window
just enough to run at a low idle was a non starter. Either it was closed too
much or open too much... no middle ground. Had two close calls of runaways.
Back to plan A, moving stop control linkage back and forth to loosen it up.
After twenty minutes of tapping open and closed with a hammer and
screwdriver, I switched to a small diameter stubby nutdriver which fit over
the end of the stop control linkage and gave enough of a grip to move it
After approximately 1 hour of cycling it back and forth it was loose enough
to be moved (with difficulty) by fingers alone. After another half hour it
would spring back to "open or run" position when released from stop
position.
Time to try it. Cover back on, plywood at ready, pull out and hold
engine stop and hit starter, then slowly let engine stop back in ...it
coughs ... again...a little pedal...real rough idle and surging...governor
not responding real well...pull out hand throttle and try to set it for 1000
RPM...engine steadies and runs! Allow it to fast idle for 15 minutes and
then release hand throttle and governor starts to catch the surges, not well
but better than at start. Reset hand throttle and run for another half hour
before darkness falls and we call it a night.
Tomorrow we go shopping for bolts to replace the fender. Anyone got
preferences on type and finish for replacement GI hardware?
Thanks to all for input, and a special tip of the hat to Dave Doyle and
RAM.
Photos coming to my Photopoint site soon.
Re: [MV] runaways
From: Ron (rojoha@mediaone.net)
Date: Wed Mar 28 2001 - 15:10:39 PST
Hi Al and All:
A "RUNAWAY" (deserves all capitals if you've ever experienced one) is
when a Diesel or Compression Ignition Engine gets an unlimited supply of
fuel and continues to increase in RPM's until it disassociates into it's
component parts...way beyond field stripping, maybe to subatomic level.
Since an injector supplies such a small amount of fuel with each spray,
shutting off the electric power to the fuel pump and fuel starving the
engine that way is not an option... the filter cans probably hold 3 quarts
and the engine will come apart long before it runs out of fuel.
Soooo, the only option left if you can't cut off the fuel supply to the
injection pump is to make the mixture too rich to run by shutting off the
air supply to the engine. When my M35A2 ran away last weekend (or 2) I had a
diesel savvy club member (thank you Larry Damour) present who pulled the
mushroom of the air filter and covered the opening (and the one around back)
with various body parts while I sat behind the wheel trying to pull the
"Engine Stop" control 3 feet out of the dash. The engine only slowed it's
increase in RPM's when he covered the inlet and did not die until he covered
the 3/4" opening in back.
Now, when I start the truck, I crank it with the Engine Stop pulled out
and slowly let it back in until the engine starts, anticipating the runaway
from the governor that has not yet happened. I guess ya could say I am a bit
gun shy now. I would strongly suggest that anyone buying a M series diesel
make sure the fuel cutoff linkage inside the injector pump moves freely by
finger movement before you try to crank over your long dormant engine....or
you might just get a lesson in how the Universe was formed by the big bang
theory.
Ron
PS As was pointed out to me, the LD 465 series engines use a pressed on
flywheel gear ring, which is at about the mid upper thigh area when sitting
behind the wheel. If the Engine Stop don't work when ya pull it and the
engine is winding up, get the hell out of the cab or find yourself a wooden
platform with roller skates on it cause you won't be walking for a long
time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valentine" <thebear@seanet.com>
To: "Ron" <rojoha@adelphia.net>
Sent: 14 March, 2005 12:06
Subject: Re: [MV] M35A2 Fuel Control Unit Assemblies
> Ron,
>
> It must be approaching a year that it has been sitting. I have been
> fighting this problem and finding dead ends. First I thought I had a
> starter problem and it turned out to be batteries!!!!!!!!!!!! Then this
> fuel thing.. I replaced the intank fuel pump, which was shot, and that
> didn't solve the problem but at least then I was getting fuel to the
> injector pump. Since then I have been trying to figure out why the
> injector pump would not work.. I finally got the problem narrowed down to
> the problem I shared yesterday and David Doyle gave me some great step by
> step instructions that I am going to try this week..
>
> Verne
>
>
>
> At 06:13 AM 3/14/2005, you wrote:
>>How long has your truck been sitting since it last ran?
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne J. Valentine"
>><thebear@seanet.com>
>>To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>Sent: 13 March, 2005 22:50
>>Subject: [MV] M35A2 Fuel Control Unit Assemblies
>>
>
>
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