From: Thomas M McHugh (tmmchugh@msn.com)
Date: Tue Apr 26 2005 - 11:02:47 PDT
John,
Army Motors or Military Vehicles magazine had a great article about the
evolution of 24087. I am well aware of the changes of color that took
place over the years. It is just unfortunate that the military could not
have used an alpha designation for each upgrade. During my 43 years in the
military, every time we repainted trucks, they did not match.
The 24087 available now is actually lighter in tone. Worse yet ALL spray
24087 is not a match to can paint. The spray is what we called "Baby
Sh**" spray since it looks more like a dirty diaper. Sure wish we could
convince a supplier to make spray OD in the older color. I would buy
several cases, if ever available. Many of my friends would also. How
about it, paint people ???
I had found gal cans of original older 24087 paint & painted my early 1952
M38A1. It looks good. Now when I have to touch up a small scratch, with
spray, it does not match.
Thanks much.
Tom McHugh, NJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams-Graf, John" <John.Adams-Graf@fwpubs.com>
To: "Thomas M McHugh" <tmmchugh@msn.com>; "Military Vehicles Mailing List"
<mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: Olive Drab no. 3412 color ???
Tom:
I realize that the study of U.S. vehicle paint colors is complex, to say the
least. But, if you reread what I had written before (still pasted at the
bottom of this post), OD No. 3412 is the SAME as Olive Drab No. 22, which is
the same as OD No. 9 and which is the same as AN 319.
SO, to simplify it, if you want OD No. 3412, buy AN 319. There should be no
difference as it was all the same formulation. Incidentally, on March 1,
1956, Federal Standard 595 redesignated Olive Drab 3412 (formerly No. 22,
No. 9, and 319) as "34087". Be careful here, though and read closely:
FEDERAL STANDARDS EVOLVE. The number "34087" represents different things at
different times since 1956.
I don't know what you mean by "the older, darker 1952 era color" but I
suspect you are referring to 2430, the semigloss OD? If so, 2430 and 24087
were virtually identical. 24087 is available from many great dealers that
you will find advertising in Military Vehicles Magazine. To recap, 202 is
the same as 2430 which is the same as 24087.
John A-G
Iola, WI USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas M McHugh [mailto:tmmchugh@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:54 AM
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List; Adams-Graf, John
Subject: Olive Drab no. 3412 color ???
Does anyone know a source for the OD No. 3412 Paint ???
Does anyone know of Spray Paint for the older darker 1952 Era color ???
Tom McHugh, NJ
1952 M38A1
M-416 Trailer
MVPA, MTA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams-Graf, John" <John.Adams-Graf@fwpubs.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] color of WW2 gensets
Terry:
Here is the link to a good article on paint color evolution that had
appeared in Military Vehicles Magazine some time ago about paint color
evolution:
http://www.collect.com/interest/article.asp?Pub=MV&id=4600
Also, there is an excellent synopsis of the evolution in the Standard
Catalog of Military Vehicles, SECOND EDITION by David Doyle (pages 480-502).
Incidentally, the specification for that created the number "A/N 319" was
introduced in January 1943 ("A/N" meaning "Army/Navy"). It was not adopted
by the Army Air Corps because it did not inhibit infrared detection. It was
the same color as Olive Drab number 22--just a new designation.
Olive Drab no. 22 was a designation created by the Quartermaster Corps in
October 1940. The paint was to be made according to ES-474 ("Engineering
Specification"). ES-474 was later replaced by ES-680.
In October 1942, responsibility for paint shifted BACK to the Corps of
Engineers. They referred to their own specifications, Spec 3-1. Though the
color was the same as Olive Drab no. 22, the Corps of Engineers had its own
name: "No. 9 Olive Drab." The spec was updated to Corps of Engineers
standards and adopted as "Specification 3-1F/Color Car Supplement (Revision
1)." This was issued on April 21, 1943
Before I go on...a bit of review:
Outbreak of World War II: All vehicles painted in Olive Drab No. 22
Olive Drab No. 22 is the same as No. 9 Olive Drab. A/N 319 Olive Drab is
the same color as Olive Drab 22.
End of World War II: All vehicles painted in Olive Drab No. 22 (the same as
No. 9 or A/N 319. One color, three names.)
SO....up until August 1, 1945, when Army Regulation 850-15 introduced a
semigloss Olive Drab (for the very first time), all vehicles were painted in
the same color (though the NAME of the color changed three times in four
years).
Bear in mind, too, that AR 850-15 stated CLEARLY that vehicles were only to
be repainted in semigloss when repainting was otherwise required. the
September 1945 issue of Army Motors noted that the semigloss would not be
available for 60-90 days. SO, during WWII, NO semigloss was approved for
use on vehicles.
The rest of the story...In 1950, No. 22 Olive Drab was renamed "Olive Drab
no. 3412". The semigloss specified in AR 850-15 was named "Olive Drab no.
2430". OD 2430 was the standard color of U.S. vehicles until 1956.
Hope this helps
John A-G
Iola, Wisconsin USA
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