From: David Ashley (imjustdave@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jun 03 2005 - 10:34:13 PDT
Um ah why did you ?
" Proper commercial insurance and registrations onboard for both truck and
trailer."
I think you put your self in this commercial arena buy having commercial reg
and ins. I don't know how much business you do but I think a personal plate
would have been a better option, Also I have heard the words "Not for Hire"
go a long way of keeping you out of commercial areas. I think you need to
go all commercial or all personal. Your business and the amount of income
will dictate.
-----Original Message-----
From: Military Vehicles Mailing List [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org] On Behalf
Of MV
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:20 AM
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
Subject: [MV] My recent run in with the Commercial Vehicle Police - Indiana
I just wanted to share my tale with you so you can possibly avoid this
sitaution. I'd also like to hear about your experience with the CMV cops.
Last week on the Friday before Memorial Day I was driving my 22 ft
flatbed truck with my newly renovated gooseneck trailer attached, across
Indiana.
Here are the particulars:
Truck:
GMC 1984 Diesel 22 ft. flatbed straight truck with 28,000 GVWR on the
door jamb plate.
Indiana truck plates - 26,000 lbs tags registered in my companies name.
Hydraulic disk brakes on all both axles.
Trailer:
Dual Tandem Gooseneck trailer with 16,000 lbs plates - trailer is really
good for 24,000+ lb payload. Plates registered in my companies name
also. Trailer was attached to the above truck via a gooseneck ball
mounted in a well in the truck bed.
Proper commercial insurance and registrations onboard for both truck and
trailer.
I was heading across Indiana when a semi blew by me and hit his horn
pointing behind me. I had a cop on my tail with the lights flashing -
but no siren. I pulled over.
I was not breaking any laws apparently when the cop pulled me over.
Commercial motor vehicles can be stopped without cause. It was my turn
apparently. This was the first time I had the trailer attached to this
truck.
I was asked for my license (standard issue - non-CDL).
I was asked for my medical card. I did not have one.
The officer did a 100% inspection on my rig and found a tail light on
the trailer has stopped working - everything else passed.
I had the proper USDOT numbers on my truck.
I did not have a truck inspection sticker or documents.
She asked me how many trucks I had in my fleet. I only have one.
She asked where I was coming from and where I was going and the plans
for my trip.
The officer told me that all 3 axle trucks and all combination vehicles
with total GVWR weight ratings of over 26,000 require a CDL. I told her
that the BMV told me that my truck did not require a CDL even though it
says 28,000 on the rating plate (which they did).
After the officer did an entire truck and trailer inspection, she mulled
things over for a long time and finally said that she can't allow me to
drive the vehicle because I don't have a CDL. She said that she really
wished that she had not pulled me over since it was obvious that I was
trying to do everything correctly.
She said I needed to call someone who had a CDL to come and drive the
vehicle from where it was. I made a couple of phone calls but I knew
that no one was immediately available. After sitting on the side of the
road on the back edge of the trailer for about 2 hours waiting for
people to call me back - she re-emerged from the car and gave me a bunch
of info - a department of revenue booklet with a bunch of pages turned,
a warning ticket for no CDL and a tailight out, and an actual ticket for
not having an IFTA fuel tax license and stickers. She then told me that
she would follow me down to a truckstop. She pointed out that the
truckstop was on a north-south county road and she drove on and did not
stay with me at the truckstop. Since I had to go north anyway, that
location was a convenient drop off point.
There is a lot of confusion over the 26,000 lb limit for a CDL
requirement. But the officer said that since the truck was rated for
28,000 it was clearly over even though the plates say 26,000 lbs. The
fact that I had a combination vehicle with a total plated weight of
42,000 clearly put me in CDL land she said.
I knew that by pulling the heavy gooseneck trailer that I was running
the ragged legal edge pretty hard - but I didn't think I would get
pulled over so quickly. The pullover and the almost 3 hour delay (while
I paid for guys to wait for me at the destination) was costly. I have
called the courthouse to find out what the situation is with the IFTA
ticket and they could not tell me if it required a court appearance or
if it was just a fine. I'm guessing it is a fine since it is not a
moving violation, but who knows.
This week I called the Indiana Department of Revenue - as they handle
the IFTA licensing - this was all news to me but I'm sure heavy truckers
are very familiar with this BS that they apparently have to deal with
every 3 months. IFTA is all about fuel taxes and trucks and the states
struggles to grab as much money from truckers as possible. If your rig
is licensed over 26,000 lbs, and commercial - you have to get an IFTA
license and stickers. Note that I said licensed - not rated. The DOR
doesn't care if you rig is rated for 80,000 and licensed for 26,000 they
said. The proof is when you run it across the scales. If you exceed
your plates, or the maximum axle ratings - then you are in trouble.
They also don't care if you have a CDL or not - the DOR is all about
money. The cops at the scales and the CMV cops enforce the DOR laws.
Then I found out about interstate laws with a rig over 26,000 lbs total
licensed plates. My rig was officially at a total license weight of
42,000 lbs. (26K + 16K) Since the total rig is over 26,000 lbs she
told me I would need trip permits to visit other states with this rig.
(What? I already have plates - Indiana ones - what is this about I
thought - again caught off guard!)
If you take a rig that is over 26,000 lbs across your home state lines
you either need an IRP apportioned plate or a trip permit to enter that
state. (Yes, more BS) I told her I may be going to Michigan, IL, OH,
and Kentucky and NY with my 42K licensed rig. I said how much would an
IRP plate cost for that weight. She said about $942.00. The truck cost
$1800!!! She said that I could get a credit for the unused portion of
my Indiana 26,000 lb truck plate - which cost about $350.
I checked on the cost of trip permits and they are not cheap, but a lot
cheaper than an IRP plate. A 3 day pass to New York is $25, etc. Ohio
about $15. You need a permit for each state you pass through. So much
for the "United" States - this is expensive, and obviously very
politically centered on the individual states. It's basically a big
money grab from truckers. If you are an independant heavy truck owner
operator - I have newfound respect for your ability to put up with all
of this BS.
Anyway - even though I am setup as a Private Carrier - I move my own
commercial stuff - not for hire - this commerical truck stuff is darn
expensive. Especially for only occasional use - which is what I bought
the truck and trailer for - to haul machines that I purchase, rebuild
and sell. I'm going through the CDL licensing process which I don't
think will be much of a problem - just a time eater. Will it make me a
better driver - probably not. But it will make me 100% legal.
The lesson that I have learned from all of this is to avoid getting into
the commercial end of truck situation if at all possible. I have an M51
5 ton dump with Indiana historical plates and I intend to keep it that
way. If you attempt to go commerical with a truck like a 5 ton M54 type
truck - make sure you have a lot of money to spend and you like to fill
out fuel tax returns every 3 months as that is what is legally required.
If you miss a filing there is a $50 fine. Also you will need trip
permits to cross state lines. More BS. If you don't intend to use the
vehicle for commerical use - stay as far away from the commerical stuff
as possible - In fact I would avoid getting a CDL since it may make you
look like you are a commercial driver attempting to skirt the law.
If you are going to be using a truck for commercial use - go all of the
way and do it 100% correct. You will just end up paying for doing it
right or pay even more for doing it wrong. There seems to be no in
between - at least that is the way I look at it now.
I'd be interested to hear other people stories and experiences regarding
this type of thing and how far you can push the envelope before the CMV
cops come down on you.
Do many people have 5 ton trucks licensed as CMV's. What about M35? If
a vehicle is over 10,000 K lb GVWR and commerical it is suppose to have
USDOT numbers (free to get) but it exposes you to more scrutiny.
I have talked with some Commercial drivers and some have said that they
have never been pulled over by the CMV cops. I think there are only
about 10 CMV cops in the entire state of Indiana. Obviously last Friday
was "not" my lucky day.
Dave
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