From: Darrell Ramsell (daram@comcast.net)
Date: Fri Aug 12 2005 - 03:31:24 PDT
Dave
I take great offence to what you said. Obviously you did not read it
right. In the beginning the Flight Attendant weren't even thinking that
these guys were possible terrorist. They just thought they were annoying &
obnoxious. I wasn't until they started to do a bunch of other things that
started to make them worry. And from what the FBI agent told them, rightly
so.
But let me tell you something else that you're not obviously aware of.
We've been trained and know better then to automatically assume that just
because a few of Middle Eastern looking guys board the plane that we should
automatically assume they're potential terrorist. They could be Indians or
some other nationality and even if they are Middle Eastern they might not
even be Muslim. We also know that there are black, white and Asian Muslims.
We also know that Al Qaida and other Muslim extremist terrorist groups are
trying to recruiter white blond hair blue eyed American to their cause. And
you shouldn't dismiss that either. Didn't they find American, British,
Australian Muslim converts fighting with the Taliban in Afghanistan? So,
don't give me your crap about
profiling.
And if I seem a little pissed off, you bet I am. I work for American
Airlines and I was flying over the Atlantic when an American and United
Airline plane flew into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. There is
hardly a flight that goes by where that thought doesn't pop up in my mind.
I also know that given the opportunity, terrorist would love to do a repeat
so they can humiliate us and rub it in. And from what I've heard, they're
still looking and that puts me on the front line. The fact also remains
that all 19 of the hijackers from 9/11 were all Middle Eastern. So if a
bunch of Middle Eastern guys do show up on my plane I'm going to pay
attention a bit more than usual. And if that going to offend your sense of
political correctness, then stay the hell off my plane! My life, the life
of my crew and my passengers are more important than that!!!
To the rest of you gentlemen on this list I apologize for my outburst but
it's something I had to say. I also apologize for putting this topic on the
list even though it's not MV related. I simply wanted to let you know that
the threat is still out there and we still need to be alert.
I have said all I need to say on this matter and will comment no further.
Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "MV" <MV@dc9.tzo.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] Military travel in 2005/Terrorist are still here and
watching.
> Wow, this is pretty sad.
>
> So what happened? These guys looked suspicious since they were going to
> Pakistan, so the attendants stared at them, the guys got nervous (hey,
> they know they are targets already - how would you feel??), the attendants
> overreacted, diverted the plane, called out the swat team and ......
> nothing happened.
>
> Yep, that was some great work. Meanwhile the cargo containers on the
> plane were not checked, but no one got poked by a nail clipper.
>
> Why didn't they just take them out on the airport tarmac and shoot them
> for excessive drinking and movement within the airplane!
>
> Why would terrorists suck down as much alcohol as possible?
>
> This is profiling at it's worst. They look suspicious since they are
> talking and moving around and they are nervious, and they look like they
> are from another country. This sounds like my wife on an airplane!!!
>
> This is suppose to be encouraging?
>
> I'm driving.
>
> Dave
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Darrell Ramsell wrote:
>> I'm a Flight Attendant for a major airline and what Bill said has always
>> bothered me too but unfortunately we can't enforce our laws in another
>> country.
>>
>> I also had to laugh at the irony of our soldiers having to give up nose
>> hair scissor but allowed to keep their guns.
>>
>> However, I want to let you know that their are people who are doing their
>> jobs. A couple of weeks ago a United flight from LA to London was
>> diverted to Boston because of suspicious activity of 3 middle eastern
>> passengers aboard the flight. This is a reminder that the terrorist are
>> still out there and watching us. Below is a copy of an e-mail from the
>> #1 Flight Attendant on the flight.
>>
>>
>> They're still out there, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, Diana
>> Subject: UAL LAX-LHR flight 25Jul05
>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 03:13:36 +0000
>>
>> LAX/LHR Flight
>> 25 July, 2005
>>
>> Hi all...
>> Many of you may have seen CNN and other news reports or read in the
>> papers about the
>> LAX/LHR flight that diverted to Boston to remove three suspicious
>> passengers. Well, guess who was lucky enough to be the Purser on the
>> flight? Thanks to those of you who have called or written with their
>> concern. I am fine and other than a million reports I have to write, all
>> is well.
>>
>> The three Pakistani passengers, two in BC seats (8A and 14D) and one in
>> economy, got our attention before takeoff with self upgrading, moving
>> about the plane, changing seats several times and asking the crew about
>> our layover, where we stayed, etc. We basically ignored them and wrote
>> them off as bothersome. During the bar service, two of the guys kept
>> drinking a lot, and asking for refills before we got two rows away. Now
>> we wrote them off as obnoxious, as well as annoying. We cut down the
>> drinks to the guy in BC who wanted more scotch and wine with dinner.
>> After the meal service, the guy in 8A, who hadn't said a word, got up and
>> went to 14D and spoke with him for 10 minutes. We didn't even know they
>> knew each other as they had no prior contact. The F/As in economy were
>> concerned over the behavior of the economy passenger and asked for a name
>> check. The cockpit got back to us to let us know all had gone through
>> secondary clearance in LAX and were all ticketed to Islamabad, Pakistan.
>> All the guys kept going to the bathroom and now we were checking the loos
>> every time they came out. After 8A spoke with 14D, he (14D) went to
>> economy and went straight to the overhead in 32CDE, took out a briefcase
>> and brought it back to his BC seat. 32E was where the economy passenger
>> was originally seated, but he had moved to 31G on the aisle. All the F/As
>> were keeping an eye on these three and every time we would casually look
>> at them, they were staring at us, watching everything we were doing. The
>> economy guy went to the back galley and kept the duty free sellers busy
>> by asking to see everything and having them open several items to the
>> point where one of them wrote on a piece of paper to another F/A, "He's
>> distracting us, see what's happening in the cabin"....
>>
>> I was communicating all this information to the cockpit, as well as our
>> concerns. I don't think they took it as seriously as we did. That was
>> until the economy guy went to the F/As in the back and asked them if we
>> had been up in the air for 3 1/2 hours yet. He kept asking when 3 1/2
>> hours would be. At the same time, the 14D guy went up to the BC F/As and
>> asked if we'd been flying 3, 3 1/2 or 4 hours yet. Now most passengers
>> ask how much longer we have to go and not if we've been flying a specific
>> time, and we figured with all their drinking, they didn't want to know
>> the time so they could face Mecca for their prayers. UAL and the pilots
>> decided we needed to divert before we got over the Atlantic (we were
>> about 3 1/2 hours out from LAX, over the Hudson Bay) so we did a slow
>> turn and descent to Boston for 1:50 hours. We also pulled the circuit
>> breaker on the airshow. About 5 minutes before landing, the Captain made
>> announcement we had a navigational problem that needed to be looked at
>> before we crossed the ocean. We were all watching the guys when they were
>> told we were landing, and none reacted abnormally. We moved a very
>> muscular passenger to seat 1E on the aisle and an SA to seat 1A and told
>> them we had security issues and if anyone not in uniform came up the
>> aisle towards the cockpit, they were to try and do anything to stop them.
>> We also moved one of the F/As sitting up front (she is 5 foot and weighs
>> about 100 pounds) to another jumpseat and moved another male F/A up front
>> so there were three guys in the jumpseats by the cockpit. Having done
>> that, we realized Karen, the F/A we moved, was so pissed off at these
>> guys, she could have beat the shit out of all of them. The one nervous
>> Nellie F/A who walked around with the ice mallet for the last two hours
>> of the flight, we kept in the back where if anything did happen, he could
>> scream and hit himself with the mallet. The Captain informed me just
>> about everyone would meet the airplane. Knowing UAL, I was expecting a
>> CSR Supervisor to come on and ask these passengers if they were
>> terrorists and if not, would they like to join Mileage Plus....
>>
>> The landing was normal, and very quiet on the plane since it was 0300
>> and most passengers were asleep when we woke them. We pulled to the gate,
>> but the jetway didn't come toward us for two minutes. I looked out and
>> saw about 30 swat team guys in flak jackets and machine guns. Well, I
>> guess everyone figured out at this point it was not a navigational
>> problem. As I went to door 2, the guy in 8A was staring out the window at
>> our welcoming party. The guy in 14D was on his mobile phone and he was
>> later observed hiding the phone in the pillow when the armed guys came on
>> board. 20 swat team guys boarded the plane, ten down each aisle with
>> guns ready. Most of the passengers were pretty freaked by this. The
>> police took the three guys off. We had to help them find all their carry
>> on. Most of the passengers were very helpful in trying to ID their hand
>> carry on as we really had no idea of what was theirs.
>>
>> The FBI, TSA, Joint Terrorism Task Force Rep, Boston Police, Airport
>> Police and Massachusetts State Troopers interviewed the Captain, the two
>> F/As who had the most contact with them and me for two hours. The FBI
>> also interviewed the passengers sitting around the guys. The FBI asked
>> the Captain when he realized the severity of the situation, and he
>> replied, "When he saw the fear in the eyes of his crew..."after the three
>> of us (F/As) threw up, we told our story...what really happened!
>>
>> By the time we got back to the plane, UAL Ops had shown up and arranged
>> for the passengers to go to hotels for an 1100 departure to continue to
>> London with a new crew. Of course, we then had to wait for immigration to
>> show up since all the non-US and greencard holders were now reentering
>> the US and had to fill out I-94 forms as new visitors and be
>> fingerprinted and photographed again.
>>
>> We finally got to the hotel around 0730 and I was on the phone for the
>> next two hours talking to our office in London, to the AFA, and
>> scheduling. Scheduling called Toby to let him know what was going on
>> since I hadn't had a chance to call him yet. It was wonderful to talk to
>> him and I felt safe for the first time in hours on hearing his voice. By
>> the time we got to the hotel, we were already on the news, and several
>> hours later, we heard the passengers were interviewed, cleared and
>> released. The FBI told me they felt they were on a test run surveillance
>> flight, observing and watching our routine and looking for weaknesses in
>> our security. All the authorities reassured us we did the right thing
>> and that was backed up by the passengers who thanked us and said that
>> they were so glad we watching out for their well being. I think as F/As,
>> we sense when something just isn't right, and this flight had too many
>> small incidents that didn't add up, and thankfully, we acted on our
>> feelings.
>>
>> We had a lovely lobster dinner (which I think UAL should have bought for
>> us, but didn't), Boston EAP got hold of us to see if we needed anything,
>> BOSSW checked up on us and a LHRSW Supervisor called. So, after a nice
>> deadhead home the next day via IAD, Toby met me outside of customs with a
>> bouquet of flowers and we took the tube (which was up and running, but
>> now with armed police at all the stations) home. Now, it's time to write
>> the reports. We were supposed to go to Norway on Wednesday for a few
>> days, but had to cancel since I didn't get home until Wednesday night. It
>> would have been such a nice relaxing time...maybe next time!
>>
>> You all fly safe and keep your eyes open because the bad guys really are
>> out there and watching us!
>> Take care...
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kealey"
>> <cwkealey@atlanticbb.net>
>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MV] Military travel in 2005
>>
>>
>>> The really IMPRESSIVE part of all this is that the rules only apply to
>>> outgoing
>>> flights.
>>>
>>> My wife's nephew just arrived a little over a month ago from Europe and
>>> had one
>>> layover, again in Europe. NO shake down and very fast boarding at both
>>> airports
>>> in Europe.
>>>
>>> He did not observe any personal security check coming to DC.
>>>
>>> However, upon leaving D.C. last week he had to get to the airport 3
>>> hours before
>>> the flight to check in. Then waited for several hours to go through the
>>> lines
>>> to the boarding area. Then he had to take off his shoes and remove all
>>> metal
>>> objects from his pockets and carry on bags. What a sad joke.
>>>
>>> We watched people taking off belts because of the belt buckles and other
>>> things.
>>>
>>> Truely amazing what we will go through to pretend to be safe and secure.
>>>
>>> Sorry, this just strikes me as ridiculous. Former law enforcement
>>> officer and
>>> all that. <Sad Grin>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Employee at MILVEHCO"
>>> <milveh@dslextreme.com>
>>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 8:20 PM
>>> Subject: [MV] Military travel in 2005
>>>
>>>
>>> Before deploying from Savannah, Georgia to Iraq by a chartered airliner;
>>> the troops of the 48th Brigade Combat Team, a National Guard unit, had
>>> to
>>> go through the same security checks as any other passengers.
>>>
>>> Lt. Col. John King, the unit's commander, told his 280 fellow soldiers
>>> that FAA anti-hijacking regulations require passengers to surrender
>>> pocket
>>> knives, nose hair scissors and cigarette lighters. "If you have any of
>>> those things," he said, almost apologetically, "put them in this box
>>> now."
>>>
>>> The troops were, however, allowed to keep their assault rifles, body
>>> armour, helmets, pistols, bayonets and combat shotguns.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
>>> <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
>>> To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2/65 - Release Date: 8/7/2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
>>> <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
>>> To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
>> To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>>
>
> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Oct 28 2005 - 23:25:28 PDT