From: Sonny Heath (sonny@defuniak.com)
Date: Fri Aug 12 2005 - 06:30:01 PDT
I, for one, agree with you a thousand percent Darrell. Its hard to say
ANYTHING on this list for without getting slammed one way or the other.
One member of this list made a statement that some states require motorhomes
to stop in at weigh stations, I asked him to give me just one state that
requires that and he said that I could look it up for myself and then he
sent me all kinds of hateful emails, privately, calling me all kinds of
dirty names, etc
Sonny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Ramsell" <daram@comcast.net>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] [MV]Terrorist are still here and watching.
> Dave
>
> I take great offence to what you said. Obviously you did not read it
> right. In the beginning the Flight Attendant weren't even thinking that
> these guys were possible terrorist. They just thought they were annoying
> & obnoxious. I wasn't until they started to do a bunch of other things
> that started to make them worry. And from what the FBI agent told them,
> rightly so.
>
> But let me tell you something else that you're not obviously aware of.
> We've been trained and know better then to automatically assume that just
> because a few of Middle Eastern looking guys board the plane that we
> should automatically assume they're potential terrorist. They could be
> Indians or some other nationality and even if they are Middle Eastern they
> might not even be Muslim. We also know that there are black, white and
> Asian Muslims. We also know that Al Qaida and other Muslim extremist
> terrorist groups are trying to recruiter white blond hair blue eyed
> American to their cause. And you shouldn't dismiss that either. Didn't
> they find American, British, Australian Muslim converts fighting with the
> Taliban in Afghanistan? So, don't give me your crap about
> profiling.
>
> And if I seem a little pissed off, you bet I am. I work for American
> Airlines and I was flying over the Atlantic when an American and United
> Airline plane flew into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. There is
> hardly a flight that goes by where that thought doesn't pop up in my mind.
> I also know that given the opportunity, terrorist would love to do a
> repeat so they can humiliate us and rub it in. And from what I've heard,
> they're still looking and that puts me on the front line. The fact also
> remains that all 19 of the hijackers from 9/11 were all Middle Eastern.
> So if a bunch of Middle Eastern guys do show up on my plane I'm going to
> pay attention a bit more than usual. And if that going to offend your
> sense of political correctness, then stay the hell off my plane! My life,
> the life of my crew and my passengers are more important than that!!!
>
> To the rest of you gentlemen on this list I apologize for my outburst but
> it's something I had to say. I also apologize for putting this topic on
> the list even though it's not MV related. I simply wanted to let you know
> that the threat is still out there and we still need to be alert.
>
> I have said all I need to say on this matter and will comment no further.
>
> Darrell
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MV" <MV@dc9.tzo.com>
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [MV] Military travel in 2005/Terrorist are still here and
> watching.
>
>
>> Wow, this is pretty sad.
>>
>> So what happened? These guys looked suspicious since they were going to
>> Pakistan, so the attendants stared at them, the guys got nervous (hey,
>> they know they are targets already - how would you feel??), the
>> attendants
>> overreacted, diverted the plane, called out the swat team and ......
>> nothing happened.
>>
>> Yep, that was some great work. Meanwhile the cargo containers on the
>> plane were not checked, but no one got poked by a nail clipper.
>>
>> Why didn't they just take them out on the airport tarmac and shoot them
>> for excessive drinking and movement within the airplane!
>>
>> Why would terrorists suck down as much alcohol as possible?
>>
>> This is profiling at it's worst. They look suspicious since they are
>> talking and moving around and they are nervious, and they look like they
>> are from another country. This sounds like my wife on an airplane!!!
>>
>> This is suppose to be encouraging?
>>
>> I'm driving.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>> Darrell Ramsell wrote:
>>> I'm a Flight Attendant for a major airline and what Bill said has always
>>> bothered me too but unfortunately we can't enforce our laws in another
>>> country.
>>>
>>> I also had to laugh at the irony of our soldiers having to give up nose
>>> hair scissor but allowed to keep their guns.
>>>
>>> However, I want to let you know that their are people who are doing
>>> their
>>> jobs. A couple of weeks ago a United flight from LA to London was
>>> diverted to Boston because of suspicious activity of 3 middle eastern
>>> passengers aboard the flight. This is a reminder that the terrorist are
>>> still out there and watching us. Below is a copy of an e-mail from the
>>> #1 Flight Attendant on the flight.
>>>
>>>
>>> They're still out there, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, Diana
>>> Subject: UAL LAX-LHR flight 25Jul05
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 03:13:36 +0000
>>>
>>> LAX/LHR Flight
>>> 25 July, 2005
>>>
>>> Hi all...
>>> Many of you may have seen CNN and other news reports or read in the
>>> papers about the
>>> LAX/LHR flight that diverted to Boston to remove three suspicious
>>> passengers. Well, guess who was lucky enough to be the Purser on the
>>> flight? Thanks to those of you who have called or written with their
>>> concern. I am fine and other than a million reports I have to write, all
>>> is well.
>>>
>>> The three Pakistani passengers, two in BC seats (8A and 14D) and one in
>>> economy, got our attention before takeoff with self upgrading, moving
>>> about the plane, changing seats several times and asking the crew about
>>> our layover, where we stayed, etc. We basically ignored them and wrote
>>> them off as bothersome. During the bar service, two of the guys kept
>>> drinking a lot, and asking for refills before we got two rows away. Now
>>> we wrote them off as obnoxious, as well as annoying. We cut down the
>>> drinks to the guy in BC who wanted more scotch and wine with dinner.
>>> After the meal service, the guy in 8A, who hadn't said a word, got up
>>> and
>>> went to 14D and spoke with him for 10 minutes. We didn't even know they
>>> knew each other as they had no prior contact. The F/As in economy were
>>> concerned over the behavior of the economy passenger and asked for a
>>> name
>>> check. The cockpit got back to us to let us know all had gone through
>>> secondary clearance in LAX and were all ticketed to Islamabad, Pakistan.
>>> All the guys kept going to the bathroom and now we were checking the
>>> loos
>>> every time they came out. After 8A spoke with 14D, he (14D) went to
>>> economy and went straight to the overhead in 32CDE, took out a briefcase
>>> and brought it back to his BC seat. 32E was where the economy passenger
>>> was originally seated, but he had moved to 31G on the aisle. All the
>>> F/As
>>> were keeping an eye on these three and every time we would casually look
>>> at them, they were staring at us, watching everything we were doing. The
>>> economy guy went to the back galley and kept the duty free sellers busy
>>> by asking to see everything and having them open several items to the
>>> point where one of them wrote on a piece of paper to another F/A, "He's
>>> distracting us, see what's happening in the cabin"....
>>>
>>> I was communicating all this information to the cockpit, as well as our
>>> concerns. I don't think they took it as seriously as we did. That was
>>> until the economy guy went to the F/As in the back and asked them if we
>>> had been up in the air for 3 1/2 hours yet. He kept asking when 3 1/2
>>> hours would be. At the same time, the 14D guy went up to the BC F/As and
>>> asked if we'd been flying 3, 3 1/2 or 4 hours yet. Now most passengers
>>> ask how much longer we have to go and not if we've been flying a
>>> specific
>>> time, and we figured with all their drinking, they didn't want to know
>>> the time so they could face Mecca for their prayers. UAL and the pilots
>>> decided we needed to divert before we got over the Atlantic (we were
>>> about 3 1/2 hours out from LAX, over the Hudson Bay) so we did a slow
>>> turn and descent to Boston for 1:50 hours. We also pulled the circuit
>>> breaker on the airshow. About 5 minutes before landing, the Captain made
>>> announcement we had a navigational problem that needed to be looked at
>>> before we crossed the ocean. We were all watching the guys when they
>>> were
>>> told we were landing, and none reacted abnormally. We moved a very
>>> muscular passenger to seat 1E on the aisle and an SA to seat 1A and told
>>> them we had security issues and if anyone not in uniform came up the
>>> aisle towards the cockpit, they were to try and do anything to stop
>>> them.
>>> We also moved one of the F/As sitting up front (she is 5 foot and weighs
>>> about 100 pounds) to another jumpseat and moved another male F/A up
>>> front
>>> so there were three guys in the jumpseats by the cockpit. Having done
>>> that, we realized Karen, the F/A we moved, was so pissed off at these
>>> guys, she could have beat the shit out of all of them. The one nervous
>>> Nellie F/A who walked around with the ice mallet for the last two hours
>>> of the flight, we kept in the back where if anything did happen, he
>>> could
>>> scream and hit himself with the mallet. The Captain informed me just
>>> about everyone would meet the airplane. Knowing UAL, I was expecting a
>>> CSR Supervisor to come on and ask these passengers if they were
>>> terrorists and if not, would they like to join Mileage Plus....
>>>
>>> The landing was normal, and very quiet on the plane since it was 0300
>>> and most passengers were asleep when we woke them. We pulled to the
>>> gate,
>>> but the jetway didn't come toward us for two minutes. I looked out and
>>> saw about 30 swat team guys in flak jackets and machine guns. Well, I
>>> guess everyone figured out at this point it was not a navigational
>>> problem. As I went to door 2, the guy in 8A was staring out the window
>>> at
>>> our welcoming party. The guy in 14D was on his mobile phone and he was
>>> later observed hiding the phone in the pillow when the armed guys came
>>> on
>>> board. 20 swat team guys boarded the plane, ten down each aisle with
>>> guns ready. Most of the passengers were pretty freaked by this. The
>>> police took the three guys off. We had to help them find all their carry
>>> on. Most of the passengers were very helpful in trying to ID their hand
>>> carry on as we really had no idea of what was theirs.
>>>
>>> The FBI, TSA, Joint Terrorism Task Force Rep, Boston Police, Airport
>>> Police and Massachusetts State Troopers interviewed the Captain, the two
>>> F/As who had the most contact with them and me for two hours. The FBI
>>> also interviewed the passengers sitting around the guys. The FBI asked
>>> the Captain when he realized the severity of the situation, and he
>>> replied, "When he saw the fear in the eyes of his crew..."after the
>>> three
>>> of us (F/As) threw up, we told our story...what really happened!
>>>
>>> By the time we got back to the plane, UAL Ops had shown up and arranged
>>> for the passengers to go to hotels for an 1100 departure to continue to
>>> London with a new crew. Of course, we then had to wait for immigration
>>> to
>>> show up since all the non-US and greencard holders were now reentering
>>> the US and had to fill out I-94 forms as new visitors and be
>>> fingerprinted and photographed again.
>>>
>>> We finally got to the hotel around 0730 and I was on the phone for the
>>> next two hours talking to our office in London, to the AFA, and
>>> scheduling. Scheduling called Toby to let him know what was going on
>>> since I hadn't had a chance to call him yet. It was wonderful to talk to
>>> him and I felt safe for the first time in hours on hearing his voice. By
>>> the time we got to the hotel, we were already on the news, and several
>>> hours later, we heard the passengers were interviewed, cleared and
>>> released. The FBI told me they felt they were on a test run surveillance
>>> flight, observing and watching our routine and looking for weaknesses in
>>> our security. All the authorities reassured us we did the right thing
>>> and that was backed up by the passengers who thanked us and said that
>>> they were so glad we watching out for their well being. I think as F/As,
>>> we sense when something just isn't right, and this flight had too many
>>> small incidents that didn't add up, and thankfully, we acted on our
>>> feelings.
>>>
>>> We had a lovely lobster dinner (which I think UAL should have bought
>>> for
>>> us, but didn't), Boston EAP got hold of us to see if we needed anything,
>>> BOSSW checked up on us and a LHRSW Supervisor called. So, after a nice
>>> deadhead home the next day via IAD, Toby met me outside of customs with
>>> a
>>> bouquet of flowers and we took the tube (which was up and running, but
>>> now with armed police at all the stations) home. Now, it's time to write
>>> the reports. We were supposed to go to Norway on Wednesday for a few
>>> days, but had to cancel since I didn't get home until Wednesday night.
>>> It
>>> would have been such a nice relaxing time...maybe next time!
>>>
>>> You all fly safe and keep your eyes open because the bad guys really
>>> are
>>> out there and watching us!
>>> Take care...
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kealey"
>>> <cwkealey@atlanticbb.net>
>>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MV] Military travel in 2005
>>>
>>>
>>>> The really IMPRESSIVE part of all this is that the rules only apply to
>>>> outgoing
>>>> flights.
>>>>
>>>> My wife's nephew just arrived a little over a month ago from Europe and
>>>> had one
>>>> layover, again in Europe. NO shake down and very fast boarding at both
>>>> airports
>>>> in Europe.
>>>>
>>>> He did not observe any personal security check coming to DC.
>>>>
>>>> However, upon leaving D.C. last week he had to get to the airport 3
>>>> hours before
>>>> the flight to check in. Then waited for several hours to go through
>>>> the
>>>> lines
>>>> to the boarding area. Then he had to take off his shoes and remove all
>>>> metal
>>>> objects from his pockets and carry on bags. What a sad joke.
>>>>
>>>> We watched people taking off belts because of the belt buckles and
>>>> other
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> Truely amazing what we will go through to pretend to be safe and
>>>> secure.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, this just strikes me as ridiculous. Former law enforcement
>>>> officer and
>>>> all that. <Sad Grin>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Employee at MILVEHCO"
>>>> <milveh@dslextreme.com>
>>>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 8:20 PM
>>>> Subject: [MV] Military travel in 2005
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Before deploying from Savannah, Georgia to Iraq by a chartered
>>>> airliner;
>>>> the troops of the 48th Brigade Combat Team, a National Guard unit, had
>>>> to
>>>> go through the same security checks as any other passengers.
>>>>
>>>> Lt. Col. John King, the unit's commander, told his 280 fellow soldiers
>>>> that FAA anti-hijacking regulations require passengers to surrender
>>>> pocket
>>>> knives, nose hair scissors and cigarette lighters. "If you have any of
>>>> those things," he said, almost apologetically, "put them in this box
>>>> now."
>>>>
>>>> The troops were, however, allowed to keep their assault rifles, body
>>>> armour, helmets, pistols, bayonets and combat shotguns.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2/65 - Release Date: 8/7/2005
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
>
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>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.6/59 - Release Date: 7/27/2005
>
>
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