From: Dan Maguire (dmaguire@mchsi.com)
Date: Tue Dec 13 2005 - 16:26:18 PST
Oops - typing too fast...
I said concrete block wall. It is certainly not made of blocks. - Dan
Dan Maguire wrote:
> Hi Dave and all,
>
> The following link is to the Budd lug nut picture that Dave referred to...
>
> http://dmaguire.home.mchsi.com/BuddLugNut.jpg
>
> Thanks Dave.
>
> And to keep my ISP busy, here is a link to a video of a test where an
> F-4 is rammed into a concrete block wall built to Nuclear Regulatory
> Agency specs...
>
> http://dmaguire.home.mchsi.com/concreteplane1.wmv
>
> Finally, unrelated to everything MV, here is a video of an officer
> stopping to check on a traffic stop in progress. The activity draws the
> attention of a passing motorist with bad results. By all accounts,
> everyone was fine. Hard to believe, though...
>
> http://dmaguire.home.mchsi.com/accidentcop.wmv
>
>
> The videos are both 1.5MB for you dialup guys.
>
> BR,
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave Sofio wrote:
>
>> Dan,
>>
>> Thanks for your offer to host the image. See attached.
>> Two other listers also were interested (cc'd), so I don't feel as much
>> like a problem child now.
>>
>> Sean (armytrucks): thanks again for the artwork! Your work is
>> developing a fan club...
>>
>> Mahalo,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> dmaguire@mchsi.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dave,
>>>
>>> If you send me the image, I can host it and post the image to the group.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Sean, J, and all the others who helped incrementally. My slim
>>>> experience with duallies (a passenger-size tow-truck, my old Iveco
>>>> van, my Dodge RAM) never suggested to me that there was a more
>>>> advanced [or at least harder-to-disassemble] system out there.
>>>>
>>>> The missing bit of communication was a good description of the Budd
>>>> lug: the "cap nut" (indeed this is the manual and parts book
>>>> description) is more like a threaded...er...condom...threads are inside
>>>> and out, so it completely COVERS the inner stud, thereby allowing the
>>>> rounded shoulder to push/retain the inner wheel to the "real" stud...so
>>>> it would never have occurred to me that the "real" stud is actually
>>>> smaller and hidden within the cap nut.
>>>>
>>>> Sean Nichols sent me a GREAT photo of a lug complete with ID labels,
>>>> key thing being that it was shot at such an angle that the threaded
>>>> hole in the "condom" is visible (unlike the shot I'd found on the
>>>> web). I don't think attachments can be accepted/visible on the
>>>> list, but I did get it directly & it explains things perfectly. I
>>>> needed this explanation to understand and be prepared to deal with
>>>> this away from home soon, since on the road I am an Army of
>>>> One/can't rely on soldier #2 to help!
>>>>
>>>> Mahalo,
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> See the conical base on that jobbie? That is what holds the
>>>>> inner wheel onto the hub. There are probably a billion heavy
>>>>> trucks out there that use this, both commercially and military.
>>>>> The pictured Budd lug you show is not called a stud, so the
>>>>> manual would not call it that. All you need to change any of the
>>>>> wheels on a deuce or 5T is the one double ended wrench and a long
>>>>> metal rod to turn it. See this:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Sofio wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> J,
>>>>>> Don't worry, I spend too much of my paychecks on tools; I just
>>>>>> don't have any standard-issue tools for the M51. I'd pre-busted
>>>>>> the 1-1/2" lug nuts with a rattle gun while I was within
>>>>>> hose-range of my compressor on the very steep slope in front of my
>>>>>> place, to make sure I could get them off manually at the remote
>>>>>> (flat) location where I'd planned to do the wheel-swap. I only
>>>>>> brought minimal tools to the remote, flat location to do the wheel
>>>>>> work...that didn't get done...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To all who wrote:
>>>>>> To be contrary, TM 9-2320-211-10 (OPERATOR'S MANUAL FOR TRUCK,
>>>>>> 5-TON, 6X6, M39 SERIES) page 3-42 ("3-14. Wheel and Tire
>>>>>> Replacement") makes no mention of removing studs or of using
>>>>>> square-drive for the purpose of wheel replacement. Why not, if
>>>>>> this is indeed necessary?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not that I think this is a conspiracy to see if I will actually
>>>>>> remove the studs for no reason...(you wouldn't all be that
>>>>>> cruel...could you?) but I do wonder if this is a model difference
>>>>>> or some such, compared what everyone else is familiar with,
>>>>>> especially now that I am looking at the documentation. To remove
>>>>>> the Budd lugs, I'd first have to go buy something to drive the
>>>>>> square-ends of the studs. Then to do the work, I'll again have to
>>>>>> go drive the truck somewhere that's got room and somewhat flat,
>>>>>> where I will not have any surprise-tool-needs nearby, nor
>>>>>> compressed air, and sure don't want to get into that unless it's a
>>>>>> sure thing and I'm fully equipped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wheel removal method is not 100% clear even from the manual. In
>>>>>> the same section, the manual states: "([step]8) Remove cap nuts
>>>>>> ([item]6) to remove inner wheel," (note: says "nuts," not studs,
>>>>>> Budd lugs, etc., & no reference elsewhere to removing studs,
>>>>>> square-drive, etc). Big problem with that particular instruction
>>>>>> is the adjacent illustrated item [6] cannot be seen, as it falls
>>>>>> within a sea of black ink that once was a drawing of the tire and
>>>>>> rim... it didn't reproduce well in the electronic version, so I am
>>>>>> not sure what they are describing. Other drawings in that section
>>>>>> might or might not be using that same item number, and they are
>>>>>> pointing to what look like ordinary lug nuts. I'd expect that if
>>>>>> studs are to be removed there would certainly be mention of it,
>>>>>> considering the level of detail on other tasks in this section.
>>>>>> And when looking at them, I can see no evidence that the studs
>>>>>> even COULD be retaining the wheels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The attached is a photo of a Budd lug (not mine), not necessarily
>>>>>> identical to those on the M51, but looking a lot like what one
>>>>>> lister described. From this also, I can't see how removing these
>>>>>> would release my inners. Is this not of the type y'all are
>>>>>> describing?
>>>>>> A section-view or exploded view of the dual-wheel and hub assembly
>>>>>> would sure be worth 1000 words...or I could actually just explode
>>>>>> mine and be done with it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mahalo,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>> Sooner or later you're going to need a bunch of tools from
>>>>>>> Harbor Freight or elsewhere. One of them is a socket set that
>>>>>>> includes the 1.5 inch hex socket and the 7/8(or whatever it is)
>>>>>>> square drive socket. These are standard items for all big trucks.
>>>>>>> The mil uses a 1 foot long double ended lug wrench that you stick
>>>>>>> a very long rod into to get these things apart. Standard
>>>>>>> tightening torque for the 5ton is 400 ft-lbs, if I recall. Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave Sofio wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> uhhh...lug wrench? not sure I've even got one. Is there a
>>>>>>>> well-hidden location where one might find this shining technical
>>>>>>>> marvel? The behind-the-cab toolbox (M51 dump) is long gone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But even on close inspection, I couldn't see how the studs might
>>>>>>>> hold the "inners" in place. The stud threads end just outside
>>>>>>>> the newly-exposed part of the inner rim dish, & there is no
>>>>>>>> change in stud diameter visible, so it's hard to imagine how the
>>>>>>>> studs would work to keep the inners in place. But I'll take
>>>>>>>> three...make that four now... people's word for it & try to come
>>>>>>>> up with a facsimile for a square-drive lug wrench, and see what
>>>>>>>> loosens.
>>>>>>>> Maybe this IS worth a look through the 800 files on my CD...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hutterer, John (MPAU) wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This may sound dumb, but...you are aware that the inner wheels
>>>>>>>>> are held
>>>>>>>>> on with their own lug nuts? That's what the square drive socket
>>>>>>>>> is for
>>>>>>>>> on the other end of the lug wrench. Left hand thread on left
>>>>>>>>> side, if I
>>>>>>>>> remember correctly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Military Vehicles Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Dave Sofio
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:49 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [MV] easy 5-ton question
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is SO basic I don't even think I would find it on my
>>>>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>>>>> CD...anyway, I've got a dead inner dually that I tried to swap
>>>>>>>>> with my
>>>>>>>>> spare yesterday, while away from home & preferred tools. Lug
>>>>>>>>> nuts came
>>>>>>>>> off OK, and I wrestled the outer wheel off with some effort,
>>>>>>>>> but the
>>>>>>>>> inner is locked on with...what? Rust? Paint? Krazy glue?
>>>>>>>>> Unseen
>>>>>>>>> fasteners? If I'd had a second jack, I'd have used it to try
>>>>>>>>> to force
>>>>>>>>> the thing off. Levers, whacking with a hammer-like
>>>>>>>>> field-improvised
>>>>>>>>> tool, and copious swearing all failed to remove it. Am I missing
>>>>>>>>> anything?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe it's good I didn't have my sledge with me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --Dave
>>>>>>>>>
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