From: MV (MV@dc9.tzo.com)
Date: Sun Apr 30 2006 - 20:42:51 PDT
You make a good point. Corn is not a very efficient crop. It sucks the
life out of the soil also. Hence the need for ammonia.
I like your idea of permanent crops - no - or reduced tillage.
We will figure out a way to power our MVs one way or another!
Dave
Patrick Jankowiak wrote:
> My uncle the farmer told me that suger cane would grow just fine in
> central Texas, but for the increased water requirement. That makes it
> uneconomical in many cases. -and in his case as he's growing sorghum and
> maize, perhaps they pay better. He has cattle so that is part of it too.
>
> some notes from the CIA world factbook:
> USA arable land: 18% area
> USA permanent crops 0.21% area
>
> Now look upon God's bounty by which we have too much food to eat, most
> of it coming from that and much of the arable land is used somewhat
> inefficiently for beef production. Ok corn won't cut it, but cane would,
> if we have the water resources.
>
>
> But to discuss the statements below:
> I believe that corn gives you an output of 1.1 to 1 versus input, and
> sugar cane gives more like 8 to 1. more labor intensive to harvest.
> (examine Brazil)
>
> So instead of 70%, only 9.625% of the farmland would have to be
> converted if cane were grown. Oh, and the illegal alien 'jobs' issue
> solved -let them stay to do the work, who knows, maybe one of them will
> invent a machine to do it better. So much for political correctness, and
> no I have no proof about cane's yield, heard it from an 'expert' on a
> talk show as well.
>
> PJ
>
>
> MV wrote:
>
>> Sorry Sonny,
>>
>> I was listening to the radio yesterday while driving and they had a
>> guy on who has done a lot of analysis of Alcohol as a motor fuel
>> also. He basically said that Alcohol really isn't a solution either.
>> The energy balance equation just doesn't work - ie amount of energy to
>> produce alcohol vs the amount of energy obtained from alcohol doesn't
>> work.
>>
>> He also said that if we decided to go all alcohol - and skip petro (if
>> this was in fact possible) we would have to convert 70% all of the
>> farmland in the US to raising corn. And then we would have to import
>> corn to feed us. His solution was to forget about Alcohol other than
>> as an additive to get rid of that MTBE stuff that used to be added as
>> an anti-knock agent, but is now being phased out.
>>
>> So Sonny, I'm sorry to tell you that you are simply more screwed than
>> you first thought. (:-<)
>>
>> Unfortunately, you are not alone.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Sonny Heath wrote:
>>
>>> Leave my hero alone, will ya?
>>>
>>> Sonny
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MV" <MV@dc9.tzo.com>
>>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MV] Gas Prices/Alcohol as a solution
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The idea of using ethanol as a substitute for oil should be looked
>>>> at carefully. I have heard many times that the amount of energy
>>>> necessary to produce alcohol exceeded the energy value obtained from
>>>> the same amount of alcohol. I do a lot of work with a major
>>>> distillery and they go through a tremendous amount of coal to
>>>> produce ethanol for beverages. And that is after the corn and grain
>>>> has been planted, fertilized, harvested, and then transported to the
>>>> distillery - all of which consume plain diesel fuel (tractor and
>>>> truck fuel) and natural gas (fertilizer). They really don't care
>>>> though (to some extent) since coal is fairly cheap and they get big
>>>> bucks for a gallon of beverage alcohol. The quality standards are a
>>>> lot higher than vehicle alcohol.
>>>>
>>>> Take a look at this:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329132436.htm
>>>>
>>>> Several different people have come to similar conclusions. Do a web
>>>> search - this is nothing new.
>>>>
>>>> Indiana is pushing biofuels really hard right now. I have heard
>>>> that the break-even price for making ethanol from corn is
>>>> $2.90/gallon with government subsidies. Gee, what is gas going for
>>>> now?? But Indiana also grows a lot of corn and soybeans - so you
>>>> should not be surprised that governor Mitch (got a highway to sell)
>>>> Daniels is pushing that.
>>>>
>>>> We have a huge amount of coal in this country - 250 years worth the
>>>> last I heard. I think it is time we start using some of those
>>>> resources to produce petro products.
>>>>
>>>> Of course if we start doing that I'm sure that George got-gas? Bush,
>>>> and Dick - I got a gun - Cheney will put Exxon on the job so they
>>>> can make sure that we pay the proper price. Perhaps Haliburton can
>>>> help also?
>>>>
>>>> Sooner or later we are going to have to electn some politicians that
>>>> do what is good for the people - not what is good for big oil, corn
>>>> growers, auto companies, Saudi Arabia, Casino operators, etc. Until
>>>> then - we are our own worst enemy.
>>>>
>>>> We are operating under the golden rule now- those that have the
>>>> gold, rule.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>> With a thirsty M-51 gasser with empty tanks. (:-<)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
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>
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