From: Glen Closson (glen_closson@earthlink.net)
Date: Mon May 01 2006 - 13:44:40 PDT
We need to be able to recycle SPAM!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Patrick Jankowiak <recycler@swbell.net>
>Sent: May 1, 2006 4:32 PM
>To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>Subject: Re: [MV] Gas Prices/Alcohol as a solution
>
>
>
>Rick v100 wrote:
>
>> How about ripping up suburban homes that were built on
>> some of the best farmland in the country and planting
>> sugar cane or rapeseed?
>
>Oh yeah more eminent domain. (would be OK if the gummint were forced to pay
>twice the value of the property [as just compensation for the inconvenience
>and other expenses] instead of stealing it at gunpoint and paying 1/2 the
>value.) My house is built over an old quarry. haha.
>
>As Dallas and suburbs expanded over the last 30 years, many many acres of
>arable land was used to build houses.. We used to ride our bikes 10 miles
>north from Richardson and be in the country. All yuppieville now. zik-zak's
>and 7-11's.
>>
>> Now if we are also talking about using cellulose
>> doesn't that mean paper\cardboard? What about using
>> all that worthless junk mail for something?
>
>A universal recycling system is definitely needed. And it should be one
>that does not place a "clean and sort" burden (noncompliance fines etc.) on
>the homeowner. (pay the local inmates $2/hr to do it?)
>
>At work, all recyclables are put in one bin, and the company cleans and
>sorts the recyclables.
>
>
>>
>> All could be done if we put our minds\wallets to it.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> --- Patrick Jankowiak <recycler@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My uncle the farmer told me that suger cane would
>>>grow just fine in central
>>>Texas, but for the increased water requirement. That
>>>makes it uneconomical
>>>in many cases. -and in his case as he's growing
>>>sorghum and maize, perhaps
>>>they pay better. He has cattle so that is part of it
>>>too.
>>>
>>>some notes from the CIA world factbook:
>>>USA arable land: 18% area
>>>USA permanent crops 0.21% area
>>>
>>>Now look upon God's bounty by which we have too much
>>>food to eat, most of
>>>it coming from that and much of the arable land is
>>>used somewhat
>>>inefficiently for beef production. Ok corn won't cut
>>>it, but cane would, if
>>>we have the water resources.
>>>
>>>
>>>But to discuss the statements below:
>>>I believe that corn gives you an output of 1.1 to 1
>>>versus input, and sugar
>>>cane gives more like 8 to 1. more labor intensive to
>>>harvest. (examine Brazil)
>>>
>>>So instead of 70%, only 9.625% of the farmland would
>>>have to be converted
>>>if cane were grown. Oh, and the illegal alien 'jobs'
>>>issue solved -let them
>>>stay to do the work, who knows, maybe one of them
>>>will invent a machine to
>>>do it better. So much for political correctness, and
>>>no I have no proof
>>>about cane's yield, heard it from an 'expert' on a
>>>talk show as well.
>>>
>>>PJ
>>>
>>>
>>>MV wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sorry Sonny,
>>>>
>>>>I was listening to the radio yesterday while
>>>
>>>driving and they had a guy
>>>
>>>>on who has done a lot of analysis of Alcohol as a
>>>
>>>motor fuel also. He
>>>
>>>>basically said that Alcohol really isn't a
>>>
>>>solution either. The energy
>>>
>>>>balance equation just doesn't work - ie amount of
>>>
>>>energy to produce
>>>
>>>>alcohol vs the amount of energy obtained from
>>>
>>>alcohol doesn't work.
>>>
>>>>He also said that if we decided to go all alcohol
>>>
>>>- and skip petro (if
>>>
>>>>this was in fact possible) we would have to
>>>
>>>convert 70% all of the
>>>
>>>>farmland in the US to raising corn. And then we
>>>
>>>would have to import
>>>
>>>>corn to feed us. His solution was to forget about
>>>
>>>Alcohol other than as
>>>
>>>>an additive to get rid of that MTBE stuff that
>>>
>>>used to be added as an
>>>
>>>>anti-knock agent, but is now being phased out.
>>>>
>>>>So Sonny, I'm sorry to tell you that you are
>>>
>>>simply more screwed than
>>>
>>>>you first thought. (:-<)
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately, you are not alone.
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>Sonny Heath wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Leave my hero alone, will ya?
>>>>>
>>>>>Sonny
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "MV"
>>>
>>><MV@dc9.tzo.com>
>>>
>>>>>To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List"
>>>
>>><mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>>
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:56 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [MV] Gas Prices/Alcohol as a
>>>
>>>solution
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The idea of using ethanol as a substitute for
>>>
>>>oil should be looked at
>>>
>>>>>>carefully. I have heard many times that the
>>>
>>>amount of energy
>>>
>>>>>>necessary to produce alcohol exceeded the energy
>>>
>>>value obtained from
>>>
>>>>>>the same amount of alcohol. I do a lot of work
>>>
>>>with a major
>>>
>>>>>>distillery and they go through a tremendous
>>>
>>>amount of coal to produce
>>>
>>>>>>ethanol for beverages. And that is after the
>>>
>>>corn and grain has been
>>>
>>>>>>planted, fertilized, harvested, and then
>>>
>>>transported to the
>>>
>>>>>>distillery - all of which consume plain diesel
>>>
>>>fuel (tractor and
>>>
>>>>>>truck fuel) and natural gas (fertilizer). They
>>>
>>>really don't care
>>>
>>>>>>though (to some extent) since coal is fairly
>>>
>>>cheap and they get big
>>>
>>>>>>bucks for a gallon of beverage alcohol. The
>>>
>>>quality standards are a
>>>
>>>>>>lot higher than vehicle alcohol.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Take a look at this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329132436.htm
>>
>>>>>>Several different people have come to similar
>>>
>>>conclusions. Do a web
>>>
>>>>>>search - this is nothing new.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Indiana is pushing biofuels really hard right
>>>
>>>now. I have heard that
>>>
>>>>>>the break-even price for making ethanol from
>>>
>>>corn is $2.90/gallon
>>>
>>>>>>with government subsidies. Gee, what is gas
>>>
>>>going for now?? But
>>>
>>>>>>Indiana also grows a lot of corn and soybeans -
>>>
>>>so you should not be
>>>
>>>>>>surprised that governor Mitch (got a highway to
>>>
>>>sell) Daniels is
>>>
>>>>>>pushing that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We have a huge amount of coal in this country -
>>>
>>>250 years worth the
>>>
>>>>>>last I heard. I think it is time we start using
>>>
>>>some of those
>>>
>>>>>>resources to produce petro products.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course if we start doing that I'm sure that
>>>
>>>George got-gas? Bush,
>>>
>>>>>>and Dick - I got a gun - Cheney will put Exxon
>>>
>>>on the job so they
>>>
>>>>>>can make sure that we pay the proper price.
>>>
>>>Perhaps Haliburton can
>>>
>>>>>>help also?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sooner or later we are going to have to electn
>>>
>>>some politicians that
>>>
>>>>>>do what is good for the people - not what is
>>>
>>>good for big oil, corn
>>>
>>>>>>growers, auto companies, Saudi Arabia, Casino
>>>
>>>operators, etc. Until
>>>
>>>>>>then - we are our own worst enemy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We are operating under the golden rule now-
>>>
>>>those that have the gold,
>>>
>>>>>>rule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>With a thirsty M-51 gasser with empty tanks.
>>>
>>>(:-<)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to
>>>
>>><mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>>
>>>>>>To reach a human, contact <ackyle@gmail.com>
>>>>>>Visit the searchable archives at
>>>
>>>http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/321 -
>>>
>>>Release Date: 4/21/2006
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to
>>>
>>><mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>>
>>>>>To reach a human, contact <ackyle@gmail.com>
>>>>>Visit the searchable archives at
>>>
>>>http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/
>>>
>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to
>>>
>>><mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>>
>>>>To reach a human, contact <ackyle@gmail.com>
>>>>Visit the searchable archives at
>>>
>>>http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/
>>>
>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to
>>><mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>>To reach a human, contact <ackyle@gmail.com>
>>>Visit the searchable archives at
>>>http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>> To reach a human, contact <ackyle@gmail.com>
>> Visit the searchable archives at http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/
>>
>
>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>To reach a human, contact <ackyle@gmail.com>
>Visit the searchable archives at http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/
Regards,
Glen
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue Jul 18 2006 - 21:45:31 PDT