>>Why can you have the public .....
>Some you can, but it is up to ORGANIZORS to make these rules, and
>participants should follow what ever rules exist.
I support fully the idea of event attendees complying with the event
organizers' rules. My whole point is that event organizers are setting
restrictive firearms rules for us to follow. And I think they are off
track. I still ask the question as to how there are so many battle
reenactments with firearms and public, yet they thrive.
>I forgot to mention a lot of our HMV events are on an active military
>installation, and they have a mountain of paperwork to fill out to bring in
>live weapons.
I am not trying to be snide, but most all WWII reenactments ARE on
military posts, i.e. Ft Indiantown Gap, Ft. Storey, Ft Pickett, Ft. AP Hill,
(in the mid-Atlantic area to name a few) or on State controled lands.
Truthfully, I have never had to fill out any special gun paperwork for the
military. I have been asked to show my interstate transport paper and copy of
my class III stamp for my STEN and Vickers MG.
> As one of the handful of local people tasked with organizing these
>things, the less work for me the better....perhaps I'd feel better if more
>than 4-5 of us did the bulk of the work while 40-50 watched and criticized.
I wanted to quote this entirely. Having run several living history
events, I know where you are coming from on this point. I think more folks
should offer to help.
>>Are HMV owners any less safety concious than reenactors?
>Sure seem to be around here, seriously. I've seen the weapons checks, the
>mapping of pyro charges, the briefings, and I've seen vehicle owners >providing
"props" ignore all that, drive into ditches ("didn't know it was >there", but
the rest of us did), within 3 feet of mortar charge, etc.
After taking a second look at this one, you may have a point. People may
tend to feel invuleranable if they have all that metal wraped around them...an
infantryman reenactor may be in a position to be situationally aware. I know
many reenactors are scared of MVs at events because of some drivers playing "Rat
Patrol" and not paying attention to the people in the field around them. I think
I would rather "educate" the few inattentive MV owners than "lower the bar".
>>It's not the laws, or insurance, or more 'Gun Nuts".....I think it is
attitude.
>Yes, it is my attitude when I'm the organizer of military VEHICLE show.
I think here is where we have an issue. Since we collect and restore
vehicles with GI OD paint, White stars, and were used by the military, I would
put the capitalization on the MILITARY of Military Vehicle Show. If my
emphisis was strictly automotive, I would not be on this list but on the Jeep
list or some off-road or classic car list. I am here because I am a military
historian and Military vehicle collector.
> Which is: I AM NOT going to be responsible (both morally and risking my
business, home, etc in this litigous society) for keeping up with my 5-6 HMV's
on display,>
Again, I ask how there are so many living history weekends and battle
reenactments that mix the public and weapons and still keep going compared to
HMV displays.
Perhaps military reenactors are not embarrased by their weapons and put the
needed effort to "safe" a weapon from the public. At my very first reenactment
(if you can call it that...a renassaince Faire) I was dressed up in a Scots
kilt and handed a Lochaber Ax. It was most strongly impressed upon me that the
ax was" not a stage prop with no edge, but a REAL, HONEST-TO-GOD, HURT SOMEONE
weapon, and I had better damn well watch how I handle it!!!"
Since I was active duty military at the time when I got into later time periods
that used firearms, I knew that even shooting blanks, I had a special
responsiblity while carrying a gun around the public.....
>.
>If, sir, the "you" refered to above is me personally,
No, it was a generalization...if you noticed, I deleted your name
from the message header. You just happen to be the one supporting a position
that I think the hobby as a whole should address. Not meant to be personal
flames.
>.....if it is a generalization, I cannot speak for others. Perhaps there are
people that feel as you describe, not me, I told you how I feel, and to say
otherwise is to accuse me of lying to you.
>.
>Bravo to you (Sincerely, I got a lot of friends that do that too, and I
can't see how ya'll take the 90 degree heat in that gear, especially my
friend who wears the German wool uniform,shee!), I'm a t-shirt guy, who
brings signs, photos, posters banners describing in detail each of my
vehicles to the crowds....to each his own, but some of my best friends dress
in period clothing and bring to these events....
GP medium tent, fully furnished
pack howitzer
Stuart tank
shelter halfs
many live on site as they would have 50 years ago
and these same folks bring, when permitted by show organizors....
MG42
Browning M2HB
breech ring for pack
BAR
mortar
assorted Garands, carbines, M1911A1s, Springfields, etc....
We all travel together, frequently stay together, get together through the
week for BS sessions....If I thought they were "gun nuts" (what difference
between gun nut & truck nut other than hardware?), or militia, or had a
problem with their interest, would I associate with them?
I left this entire quote in as I think it is significant. There are
two points here:
1) If permitted by the show organizers, the living history aspect is
displayed with the weapons appearantly safely and successfully. Why not the
vehicles next to them??
2) You show that reenactors and non-reenactor MV types CAN get
along. Even though I am comparing one against the other to try to prove a
point, the list can see that we are still pretty close together in what we
try to do for the public at our shows. This is a common bond that I believe
we need to build on, share experiances and buddy up.
You mentioned that there was problems keeping an eye on your several
vehicles while you had event duties to manage. I would be willing to bet the
reenactors would jump at the chance to spread out through the vehicles and
keep an eye on things if they were invited to "share turns at the watch".
Your other text reenforced your just concerns about limiting access to
the guns to the public.
I think maybe we can make this a "win-win" situation. Can we come up
with a better way to display our HMVs that lets the gun toting vehicle owners
persue their brand of vehicle accessory yet convience the show organizers to
back off the display restrictions?
If safety is truely the issue before us and not a "PC kneejerk" against
guns, then we have a managable issue that should be resolved that both camps are
happy.
List? How can we improve the security during a show?
How do you keep an eye on things and still make it to the latrine and burger
wagon?
Do you currently work with a reenactment unit to enhance a display?
If a unit approched you to do so, what points would you want understood between
the reenactors, the event organizers and yourself before agreeing?
If you had a blank adapted MG on your vehicle, what steps would you take to keep
it secure?
If you had a MG on your vehicle able to fire blanks, what is your safety
protocol that would convience an event organizer to let you do a firing demo?
Event organizers, if someone with a properly papered, blank adapted MG on their
vehicle contacted you to perform a firing demo, what would you need to hear that
would let you feel secure enough to allow it. (Assuming the site itself would
allow it)?
OK folks, from the response to this thread so far, the majority voice is to
include the guns on vehicles as appropriate and acknowledge the firearms as just
one more accessory for the vehicle.
The question before us and event organizers is answering some pretty valid
safety concerns.
Are you all up to it?
Cheers
Jim
===
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