Daniel Terp wrote:
>
> OOOOH! that's clever. Last time someone tried that one I was eight,
> and she was six.
Hey, don't blame me. Your parents stuck you with that one.
>>> There were four of them on one flight, and had the passengers been
>>> allowed to carry guns, I assure you the terrorists would have had guns
>>> as well. And they showed they obviously had no fear of dying.
>>
Oh, well, hey, there's FOUR of them!!! Well, golly-gee, Gomer! Might
as well just sit in our seats and wimper quietly, or just wet our pants
in fear. But Jesus Christ, DON'T fight back!! THAT might actually have
a CHANCE of beating them! But if you don't win, aw geez, then they
might get MAD and then we'd REALLY be in trouble.
>>> Most likely they would have simply shot all the passengers right at
>>> the start.
>>
Yeah, like the cattle you seem to think we all should be. Unless a few
of those passengers had the ability to SHOOT BACK. That might have
caused a different outcome- assuming the passengers had more guts than
you give them credit for.
>>> They were going to kill them anyway. One good burst with an
>>> UZI and your dreams of saving the world are over.
>>
Have you ever shot an Uzi? I used to own a Class III Uzi, and let me
tell you a little bit about them. 1) They have a very small capacity
clip, compared to the rate of fire and lack of accuracy. Plus, they
tend to jam. 2) They are NOT easy to conceal, and would be hard to miss
during boarding inspections. 3) Even an Uzi can't shoot everywhere at
once. So yeah, the bad guy would get a few passengers- but if enough
law-abiding passengers are shooting back at once, even being armed with
an Uzi doesn't make anyone bulletproof. Where did you learn about
firearms; by watching old Charles Bronson movies from the 70's? It's
not how many rounds you can "spray and pray"; it's about how fast you
can place one good shot on target and within the proper area
>>> Who said anything about disarming anyone? I said that armed civilians are no match for a highly trained suicide squad, that's hardly advocating disarmament.
>>
Oh, yeah, and the unarmed, compliant targets had a FAR better survival
rate yesterday, didn't they? That's the same mindset that allows these
assholes to BE so effective in the first place.
>>> Hitler tried arming civilians to protect Berlin against the Russians, and look where it got him.
>>
?!?!? Um, OK. And the next time I decide to lead a National Socialist
nation into a world war, and then second-guess my generals in a fit of
paranoia until I find myself sitting in an underground bunker, listening
to Communist tanks shell the outside, I'll be sure to remember that bit
of wisdom.
And since you brought up the subject of Nazis and WWII, might I suggest
that YOU try fighting back like the French Resistance did- instead of
passively getting aboard the first cattle-car that the big scary men
with guns order you into? That's my point, TERP. If you just give up
because the enemy is well-armed or determined, you will lose before the
fight ever begins. Like the old saying goes, "There's no use in
running- you'll only die tired." Might as well stand and fight where
you are, with what you've got.
>>> Fighting terrorists takes more than a big gun and a big mouth. It
>>> takes a top level intelligence network with satellites, code breakers
>>> and supercomputers. You got that kind of stuff? The Military does.
>>
Yeah, yeah. And you forgot one other factor. It takes having the BALLS
to at least try. You might want to look into aquiring a set sometime,
before criticizing the rest of us for being willing to do the the best
we can with what we've got.
>>> No, they're not everywhere, and Patton didn't win every battle. But if
>>> I had to chose between them and you, it wouldn't be a contest.
>>
Well, hell. That just hurts my feelings. Tell you what, next time you
fly commercial, you be sure to buy enough first class tickets to bring
along an armed platoon with you. I hear Rosie O'Donnel knows where to
get a good deal on bodyguards, for those who aren't man enough to stand
up to the bad guys themselves. Maybe you're really nice, she won't even
pelt you with one of those damn little rubber things she throws at her
audience, if she knows it might frighten you.
>>> Frankly, if you think you can out-shoot a car bomb, you're welcome to
>>> try. But exactly how are you going to identify the "potential
>>> terrorists"? Just shoot everyone with dark skin?
>>
Well, for starters, anyone who drives their goddamn CAR onboard the
plane with them is probably gonna be just a wee bit suspicious. I'm
pretty damn observant for an "Amatuer"; I suppose I might notice THAT.
And no, because some of those folks with "dark skin" might also be
fellow law-abiding citizens. I suppose I'd probably figure on just
shooting the ones who stand up, grab the flight attendant and pull a
knife on her, and yell "Remain in your seats, or we will kill you all!"
For an "amatuer", that's a pretty safe guideline that I can live
with. But since you know so damn much, enlighten us- which race do YOU
want me to shoot (since you decided to imply, in typical liberal
fashion, that I am somehow automatically a racist by virtue of the fact
that I disagree with you)???
>>> If someone is willing to strap twenty pounds of Semtex to their waist
>>> and detonate it, or pilot an airliner into a building, do you really
>>> think your .45 is going to have them quaking in their boots?
>>
If I get a chance to react, I wouldn't be trying to frighten the stupid
son-of-a-bitch, or to show off my superior liberal viewpoint in hopes of
shaming him into compliance. I would try to quietly sneak up behind
him, and put one round into the side of his head about 3/4 inch above
the top of his ear or at the base of his skull, thereby removing the
medulla and the neural pathway for his body to react, in order to turn
him off like a lightswitch. And if he detonates his bomb (I guess he
must have hidden it under his Uzi while going through the security
checkpoint, but that's another matter), then at least I will have died
trying to save myself and everyone else onboard. Beats the hell out of
your option; waiting for the air cavlery to storm aboard the jet at
30,000 feet and come to the rescue while blaring Wagner out of the
speakers. (Again, I think you've been watching too many Hollywood movies.)
>>> And if you do find one and kill him, what's to stop them from just
>>> sending twenty more?
>>
Hmm. Well, I'd be ALIVE to face the next one. Or at least, I'd have a
better chance than your brilliant idea of wishing them away, or yelling
"Citizen's Arrest!!! Citizen's Arrest!!!" like Gomer Goddamn Pyle
wishing he had Barney Fife along to protect him with his shiney bullet.
>>> You gonna kill every Arab and Palestinian in the
>>> Middle East? You got that much ammo?
>>
Well, let's see. So far, your example has required us to go from four
guys, to one with an Uzi, to one with a bomb, to one driving his
automobile on board (bomb in the glove box), to having to shoot everyone
with "dark skin", to having to fight with "every Arab and Palestinian in
the Middle East"... Now, tell us, Mr. TERP- JUST HOW GODDAMN BIG IS
THIS AIRPLANE SUPPOSED TO BE?!?!?!?!? Last time I looked, Southwest
was still flying 737s, NOT C-5s.
But that's alright. I think those who are following this argument can
decide for themselves about the validity of your argument, based on the
infinite scope that it requires expanding into to remain even remotely
plausible. But with all that said and done, the facts still boil down
to this- YOUR position is that we, as individuals, are supposed to put
our safety and well-being, in fact our very lives, into the hands of the
all-powerful State, in the hopes that it will find us as useful assets
and will bother to spare its resources to defend its property. MY
position is that we are ALL free citizens, and as such have both the
RIGHT and the DUTY to protect ourselves, without allowing either our
freedom or our survival to be determined by the whims of others. Hmm,
on second thought, I apologize for my earlier misunderstanding. Your
allusion to Nazism makes a bit more sense now.
>>> You're using 19th century tactics for a 21st century battle.
>>
Yeah. Being willing to fight back was really popular in the 19th
Century. I guess those 21st Century battles are going to be really
passive. Maybe they'll stand on castle walls and yell down insults at
each other, like Monty Python?
>>> These
>>> guys don't walk up wearing an official terrorist uniform and challenge
>>> you to a fire fight.
>>
Quick! Somebody get them boys an offical "I'm a terrorist!" T-shirt.
And don't forget to print "Allah Akbar!" on the back of it, right over
the target logo!!! Those silly Arabs will never figure it out in time,
just like in the Hollywood movies!!! ;-)
>>> You never see them.
>>
You mean, the guy sitting in his VW parked in the aircraft aisle,
holding an Uzi in one hand and a bomb detonator in the other? What, now
he's wearing camoflauge too?!?!? Aw heck, you're gonna make this really
hard, now aren't you?
>>> You have no time to shoot.
>>
Well, by the time I have to give the troops permission to lock and load,
and then get them to march into formation, and get the front row to take
a knee and prepare to fire while the back row calls in for infared
satillite photo recon of the heat signature of the VW and its location
in the aircraft so they can direct the artillery fire accurately, what
do you expect??? By then, he could start it up and drive it to the
other end of the aisle, and throw off their range calculations.
>>> You're standing there and the bomb goes "boom!", that's it.
>>
Yeah, if you don't fight back and wait for the "professionals" to come
along and defend you, that's how its pretty much going to happen.
>>> The MV of the new war isn't a Jeep or a tank, it's a Ryder truck
>>> filled with fertilizer and diesel fuel.
>>
I thought it was a camoflauged airborne VW, with a bomb rack and a ring
mount for the Uzi???
>>> They don't care which of their "victims" are going to waste them,
>>> they've made up their minds to die for Allah anyway. Shoot them and
>>> they just get to heaven faster.
>>
Well, then, it's a win-win situation! What more could you want?
>>> Ever been to Israel?
>>
Nope. Never been to Nazi Germany, either. What's your point?
>>> Guns everywhere, even kids have them.
>>
Kinda like Colorado, huh?
>>> Every cop
>>> has a semi automatic.
>>
Oh, kinda like the US, huh? (Except for poor Barney in Mayberry. But
by now, surely Andy's got him a Glock with a one-round clip!)
>>> Military in the street.
>>
As opposed to where they "belong", following you around to keep you safe
from all the "bad people" on those civilian airliners?
>>> Random searches,
>>> roadblocks, interrogation.
>>
Kinda like your Nazis did with their unarmed populace? But hey, after
all, that's the business of the "professionals" who are allowed to
defend themselves, like the SS, right?
>>> Stuff even guys like you wouldn't want
>>> here.
>>
But I thought you said I was a Nazi. Oh, no, wait, that was a racist
who shoots everyone with "dark skin". Now, where'd that thar bedsheet
git to? I gots to go out with the boys and git us some of them "dark
skins", before all you Nazis go and take'em all away!!! YEE-HAWW!!!
>>> And still terrorism is a constant threat.
>>
Yeap. Too bad you can't just have your all-powerful State just round
them up and haul them away to some "relocation camps". That'd take care
of the problem, the "professional" way.
>>> If you could just
>>> shoot them, don't you think they would all be dead by now?
>>
Well, it's hard to see all those VWs running around with the bomb racks
and the ring mounts on the sunroof holding the Uzis, since they went and
painted them all camo. Lousy dark skinned arabs- that's cheating!!!
>>> Liberal scum?
>>
Hey, if the Jackboot fits, wear it.
>>> My sister will laugh at that one. She calls me the Rush
>>> Limbaugh of the family.
>>
Tell your sister Janet that we'll all being pulling for her in the next
Florida elections! ;-)
>>> I'm no liberal, I just appreciate the situation.
>>
I disagree on both points. Gee, guess I better hope you don't send in
the Stormtroopers to smash in my windows and kick in my doors, huh?
Jay Travis
Still Southern, still pissed, and well-versed in confronting liberal
scum ideology after going through 2 Master's degree programs at a
liberal college.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Oct 08 2001 - 10:58:59 PDT