From: Joe Scheaffer (jsinvent@charter.net)
Date: Mon Sep 09 2002 - 10:43:58 PDT
If you do not have a drivers license, you still have the right drive, on PRIVATE
PROPERTY! Just not on public/government controlled roads.
Joe
Steve Grammont wrote:
> Hi Jonathon,
>
> >Yea but, try walking around in say Groom Lake NV and find out how fast your
> >right to walk vanishes.
>
> Incorrect. Your right to "walk" has not been removed or reduced at all.
> What you have been prevented from doing is walking, crawling, running,
> driving, flying, etc. in a restricted area. It is not the act of walking
> that is being questioned, but where the walking is being conducted that
> is. For example, you are not allowed to "walk" into my house uninvited,
> but your right to "walk" is not the issue. You can still walk around
> your cell after you are arrested, assuming that Mr. Beretta and his
> friend 40 Cal hollow point haven't removed that ability :-) So your
> right to "walk" remains completely intact. This is not the case with
> driving. If you lose your license to drive you are not allowed to drive
> under whatever conditions are imposed (life, 6 month suspension, etc.).
>
> >Yes, but I specifically stated that I would like an example regarding the
> >sale of personal property, not real property (land, buildings)
>
> I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Personal
> property *can* be as restrictive as anything else if the buyer agrees to
> the seller's conditions. This is simple legal contract concept here.
> The fact that nearly all personal property does NOT come with strings
> attached is simply a function of that being the norm, not that there is
> no way it can happen.
>
> For years computer software has shipped with end user licenses forbidding
> the resale of the materials. This has been an ongoing issue for
> intellectual property items like software, music, etc. In fact, I just
> checked my copy of Microsoft Office. It says, quite clearly, that I have
> no right to resell it. So even if I wiped the product off my harddrive
> and sold the whole thing to someone, this is (technically) illegal. If I
> don't agree with that, then I am not allowed to buy the product. Plain
> and simple. Just because it is rarely enforced doesn't mean that it
> doesn't exist.
>
> Now, as for your comments about full auto weapons.
>
> >First of all you don't need a class 3 license to own an automatic weapon,
> >only to pay a one time transfer tax. Second, they are not in fact banned,
> >you can have them, they just regulate them under tax laws.
>
> You are partially correct. It is not true that anybody can have such
> weapons. *most* people can own a full automatic weapon if they are
> allowed to (i.e. not a felon, under treatment for drugs, etc.) *and*
> state and local laws don't prohibit it *and* it is "pre-ban" and
> registered on the NFA list. If you are not legally allowed to purchase
> the gun *or* the place you live forbids it *or* the gun is not on such a
> list, you can not own such a weapon as Joe Average Citizen and will go to
> jail for a very long time if you are caught with one.
>
> You are also incorrect about the "ban". The importation of complete
> machineguns is 100% illegal, so only those guns which were here prior to
> the change in laws are grandfathered. Therefore the term "ban" is
> completely correct. This is what we have to thank George Sr and the
> Congress for back in '86. I can have any license I want and I can still
> not import a functioning machinegun. Period. I can only import BATF
> approved demiled parts. Period.
>
> New machineguns can be made if you have a Class 2 license. However, you
> technically do not own the right to keep any weapons you make and keep
> under this license. You can only buy and resell such weapons to someone
> having a C2 or (under some circumstances) a C3. This is regulated by law
> and has nothing to do with taxation. Furthermore, as soon as you fail to
> renue your C2 or C3, are refused renual, or have your rights to have such
> a license revoked... you must either cut up or sell anything that was
> made under a C2 license. So in effect you are only temporarily, and by
> the grace of the laws (created by Congress and signed by the President)
> which the BATF has been charged with enforcing, allowed to own such guns.
>
> Steve
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Wed Apr 23 2003 - 13:21:19 PDT