From: Joe Scheaffer (jsinvent@charter.net)
Date: Mon Sep 09 2002 - 10:49:28 PDT
If you do not have a drivers license, you still have the right to drive, on
PRIVATE PROPERTY! All the drivers license does is say you can drive on the
government controlled roads.
Joe
Steve Grammont wrote:
> Hi Jonathon,
>
> >Yea but, try walking around in say Groom Lake NV and find out how fast your
> >right to walk vanishes.
>
> Incorrect. Your right to "walk" has not been removed or reduced at all.
> What you have been prevented from doing is walking, crawling, running,
> driving, flying, etc. in a restricted area. It is not the act of walking
> that is being questioned, but where the walking is being conducted that
> is. For example, you are not allowed to "walk" into my house uninvited,
> but your right to "walk" is not the issue. You can still walk around
> your cell after you are arrested, assuming that Mr. Beretta and his
> friend 40 Cal hollow point haven't removed that ability :-) So your
> right to "walk" remains completely intact. This is not the case with
> driving. If you lose your license to drive you are not allowed to drive
> under whatever conditions are imposed (life, 6 month suspension, etc.).
>
> >Yes, but I specifically stated that I would like an example regarding the
> >sale of personal property, not real property (land, buildings)
>
> I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Personal
> property *can* be as restrictive as anything else if the buyer agrees to
> the seller's conditions. This is simple legal contract concept here.
> The fact that nearly all personal property does NOT come with strings
> attached is simply a function of that being the norm, not that there is
> no way it can happen.
>
> For years computer software has shipped with end user licenses forbidding
> the resale of the materials. This has been an ongoing issue for
> intellectual property items like software, music, etc. In fact, I just
> checked my copy of Microsoft Office. It says, quite clearly, that I have
> no right to resell it. So even if I wiped the product off my harddrive
> and sold the whole thing to someone, this is (technically) illegal. If I
> don't agree with that, then I am not allowed to buy the product. Plain
> and simple. Just because it is rarely enforced doesn't mean that it
> doesn't exist.
>
> Now, as for your comments about full auto weapons.
>
> >First of all you don't need a class 3 license to own an automatic weapon,
> >only to pay a one time transfer tax. Second, they are not in fact banned,
> >you can have them, they just regulate them under tax laws.
>
> You are partially correct. It is not true that anybody can have such
> weapons. *most* people can own a full automatic weapon if they are
> allowed to (i.e. not a felon, under treatment for drugs, etc.) *and*
> state and local laws don't prohibit it *and* it is "pre-ban" and
> registered on the NFA list. If you are not legally allowed to purchase
> the gun *or* the place you live forbids it *or* the gun is not on such a
> list, you can not own such a weapon as Joe Average Citizen and will go to
> jail for a very long time if you are caught with one.
>
> You are also incorrect about the "ban". The importation of complete
> machineguns is 100% illegal, so only those guns which were here prior to
> the change in laws are grandfathered. Therefore the term "ban" is
> completely correct. This is what we have to thank George Sr and the
> Congress for back in '86. I can have any license I want and I can still
> not import a functioning machinegun. Period. I can only import BATF
> approved demiled parts. Period.
>
> New machineguns can be made if you have a Class 2 license. However, you
> technically do not own the right to keep any weapons you make and keep
> under this license. You can only buy and resell such weapons to someone
> having a C2 or (under some circumstances) a C3. This is regulated by law
> and has nothing to do with taxation. Furthermore, as soon as you fail to
> renue your C2 or C3, are refused renual, or have your rights to have such
> a license revoked... you must either cut up or sell anything that was
> made under a C2 license. So in effect you are only temporarily, and by
> the grace of the laws (created by Congress and signed by the President)
> which the BATF has been charged with enforcing, allowed to own such guns.
>
> Steve
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Wed Apr 23 2003 - 13:21:19 PDT