From: 52m37@charter.net
Date: Fri Jul 23 2004 - 16:05:12 PDT
You should ask some of the Land Rover owners. they come with both pos and
neg ground, depending on where they are being used/sold. I have had several
with neg ground and seen others with pos ground. they seem to rust (frame)
and corrode (body is alum alloy) about equally, I think.
Most of the body corrosion on these was due to bimetallic contact, where
steel was in direct contact with the aluminum alloy.
Hal
> From: "Horrocks, Aaron" <ACHb@pge.com>
> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:13:54 -0700
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Subject: Re: [MV] 12-volt conversion questions
>
> Whoops I mixed up positive and negative there... I didn't get much sleep and
> have been running on Mountain Dew all day. Just reverse everything I said
> earlier and follow that!
>
> Electron flow is a certainty? I'm fairly confidant it's still theory, as all
> the books and references I have say, the most currently dated one being 1991.
> Unless sometime in the last few years the technology has been developed to
> physically view the flow of electricity in a circuit.
>
> Aaron Horrocks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Military Vehicles Mailing List [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org]On
> Behalf Of m35products
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:56 PM
> To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [MV] 12-volt conversion questions
>
>
> I wonder who these "most people" are, who agree. Electrons flow from
> negative to positive. It's not a matter of opinion, religion, phase of the
> moon, or a show of hands. It's just a scientific certainty.
>
> If you want to read about electrolysis, galvanic action, and metal
> erosion/acretion, start reading the Bell System Technical Record at a local
> engineering library.
>
> (By the way, many joints have been smoked discussing just this question.)
>
> The telephone system is positive ground, by the way, because it was found
> that lead-sheathed cables, directly buried in the ground, would suffer from
> galvanic erosion if the sheaths were negatively charged. I believe, however,
> that it also had something to do with the original electrical power
> transmission technique, which used direct current. So, the story goes, the
> phone company (Bell System) changed over to positive ground. I'm not so
> sure that the same reasoning would apply to the frame of an automobile,
> since it is suspended above the ground, both mechanically and electrically,
> by rubber tires.
>
> a p bloom, lighting up a fat one, and waiting to hear a better explanation.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Horrocks, Aaron" <ACHb@pge.com>
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 3:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [MV] 12-volt conversion questions
>
>
>>
>> Depending which electrical theory you follow... Most people will agree
> that the electrons flow from Positive (+) to Negative (-) in a DC system. A
> positive ground keeps the frame and body of a vehicle connected right up to
> the battery terminal, effectively making it part of the battery. So the
> metal of the vehicle is energized or charged on a very small degree.
> (There's more electrons present then there would be without the positive
> ground). Depending on the electricity (usually 12VDC) and metallurgy, this
> will either promote or prohibit the metal from joining with other particles,
> or atoms... Like oxygen, which can cause the vehicle to rust!
>>
>> This is, however, all based on theories and mechanic's tales. I have set
> to see first hand evidence of this, or read any experiments that prove or
> disprove it.
>>
>> Aaron Horrocks
>> Sr. Electrical Engineering Estimator
>> Livermore Office
>> achb@pge.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Military Vehicles Mailing List [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org]On
>> Behalf Of kuhrick
>> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:08 PM
>> To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [MV] 12-volt conversion questions
>>
>>
>> i don't see the neg/pos ground doing much
>> i have converted tractors and fork lifts too 12 volt with mid 1070s
>> alt. with built in regulators
>> butt they didn't have to look 6 volt they had to start wane needed
>> that alt. can have a 1 wire voltage regulator in them if you ask for
> it
>> that alt only needs the battery wire not a wire to power the
> regulator
>> the cucv's have same alt in them but 2-3 wire
>> and no ground so with a one wire regulator in it you can ground
>> it like you what i was thinking of using one on my m886 for a 12+12
> make
>> 24 volt system
>> ken m886
>> kb9yku
>>
>>
>>
>> At 11:28 AM 7/23/2004, Colin M Rush wrote:
>>> For those that do not already know, I have the care of an IHC M-5H-6.
>>> After spending 4 days driving it around several weeks ago, we have
>>> decided that a 12-volt conversion is in order. 6-volt works great when
>>> it is first started, but after if gets hot and tight, it takes about 30
>>> to 40 tries before the engine cranks over enough to catch. We jumped it
>>> once or twice with a 12V battery, and it popped right off. When
>>> researching this for a 1941 Chev truck I was working on, I had asked
>>> around several years ago at a local shop called Willamette Electric that
>>> rebuilds generators and alternators and starters (they are now out of
>>> business, thank you NAFTA), and they had told me that the generators and
>>> starters were built heavy enough that they could withstand being used in
>>> a 12V system. We also will need to rewire it, since the old wiring has
>>> been cobbled up and is painted over with Navy surplus paint and all of
>>> the color codes are gone. Anyway, I would like to keep it looking
>>> original if possible. One thing that I am worried about is the voltage
>>> regulator. It is a large Delco unit, with a removeable aluminum can held
>>> on with two thumbscrews. Can that work with 12 volts? If not, is there
>>> another one that looks the same from a newer application that I can
>>> install? Again, I would like it to look 'right'. If not, I may just
>>> install one of the more typical 'black box' regulators like the passenger
>>> cars and trucks used up into the early 1970s, and put that inside the
>>> larger aluminum can of the old box. If anyone has any input on this, I
>>> would appreciate hearing it. Also, does anyone have any suggestions for
>>> a solid-state version of one of these that will work?
>>> Also, the same truck is a positive ground vehicle. I had heard
>>> that this was a bad thing on some newer aluminum-bodied vehicles, causing
>>> corrosion. Is this something I need to change, or should I just not
>>> worry about it?
>>> -Colin Rush
>>
>>
>>
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