From: JEFF HAIN-MATSON (flmv@flmv.net)
Date: Sun Nov 21 2004 - 06:21:51 PST
Thanks for helping me to make my point!!!
Dan Maguire wrote:
> A live auction *is* open to millions. Only a small percentage show up.
> Ebay auctions are also open to millions. It is easier for them to
> show up but only a small percentage do. It may be more people than with
> a live auction, but no different.
>
> The suggestion seems to be that collusion is right or wrong based on the
> number of other people that may or may not be participating - a number
> that nobody has any knowledge of or control over. That is a very weak
> argument, IMHO.
>
> That few bidders may likely be the only bidding pool you got. Just
> because there are millions of people registered on Ebay doesn't mean
> that they are show up for a auction. I rarely see more than a dozen
> bids for any one item. And if those dozen are working together, it
> isn't an auction any more.
>
> Dan
>
> Alan R Wise wrote:
>
> > You are still wrong. And how many live auctions I've attended has nothing to
> > do with it. I'm NOT talking about live auctions. Geez. Lets try this again,
> > shall we? EBay is open to millions. A few bidders working together might be
> > unethical, but as long as MILLIONS are still able to bid- no one being
> > excluded- it is NOT illegal. A live auction has a limited number of bidders;
> > different situation and not comparable to eBay.
> >
> >
> >
> > on 11/20/04 11:21 AM, JEFF HAIN-MATSON at flmv@flmv.net wrote:
> >
> >
> >>No, it is not apples and oranges, collusive bidding is collusive bidding. Any
> >>time 2
> >>or more people agree not to "run each other up" it is collusion. Any time 2 or
> >>more
> >>people agree to "split a lot" with out disclosing at the registration that
> >>they are
> >>bidding together it is collusion. This applies to any auction, not just the
> >>DRMS
> >>auctions. It doesn't matter if there are 5 people or 5000 people bidding. (by
> >>the
> >>way, the drms auctions in question had on average 150 to 200 people
> >>registered, so
> >>there were plenty of other potentially interested parties at the sales)
> >>
> >>To bring it home to you, if you list a widget on ebay that 5 people would be
> >>the
> >>most interested in and they get together and don't bid against each other for
> >>it,
> >>you will not get very much money, why, because of collusion!!!!
> >>
> >>Collusive bidding or bid rigging is illegal, and watched for buy private
> >>auctioneers
> >>all the time. You must not go to very many live auctions.
> >>
> >>Why do you think Government Liquidation makes it so hard to see who you are
> >>bidding
> >>against??? You might drop out if you thought it was against a fellow
> >>collector......
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Alan R Wise wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>What you are discussing is apples and oranges. Collusive bidding in regards
> >>>to a federal DRMO auction is not the same- or even close- to eBay. The eBay
> >>>activity is still open to millions of other bidders, as well as being a
> >>>private company. It is certainly NOT illegal by any stretch. No matter what
> >>>a small group of folks do, a million people are still able to bid on any
> >>>item at any time.
> >>>
> >>>on 11/20/04 10:20 AM, JEFF HAIN-MATSON at flmv@flmv.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>correct, what you are doing is illegal!! it is collusive bidding, and i bet
> >>>>if
> >>>>these other people are in different states, the FBI would be involved. not
> >>>>a
> >>>>pretty picture.
> >>>>
> >>>>Steve Grammont wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Wow... I have "cease fire" arrangements with probably a dozen fellow
> >>>>>eBayers so we don't wind up killing each other over items of mutual
> >>>>>interest. Instead we email each other and see if other arrangements can
> >>>>>be made. Guess I should be looking over my shoulder for some DA looking
> >>>>>to make a name for himself :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Steve
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>for everybody's information:
> >>>>>>The below link should also include the same cases against the top 20
> >>>>>>people
> >>>>>>buying surplus at the time on the east coast. A new U.S. attorney out of
> >>>>>>Philadelphia was trying to make a name for himself, convinced that there
> >>>>>>had
> >>>>>>to be collusive bidding since the acquisition cost vs. the sale price of
> >>>>>>tractor trailer sized lots was so big. Several dealers pled guilty
> >>>>>>(Sarafan
> >>>>>>was not one as far as i know). the charges were dropped eventually against
> >>>>>>the rest, and the new U.S. attorney was fired for wasting lots of taxpayer
> >>>>>>money on what was found to be a non issue!!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>m35products wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/sarafa0.htm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> >>>>>>>To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> >>>>>>>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>JEFF HAIN-MATSON
> >>>>>>FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES WEB SITE: http://www.flmv.net/
> >>>>>>WRIGHTSVILLE PA
> >>>>>>717-252-4489 VOICE
> >>>>>>717-252-4499 FAX
> >>>>>>flmv@flmv.net E-MAIL
> >>>>>>MVPA #1833
> >>>>>>IMPS #1726
> >>>>>>MVT #9362
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> >>>>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> >>>>>>To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> >>>>>>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>JEFF HAIN-MATSON
> >>>>FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES WEB SITE: http://www.flmv.net/
> >>>>WRIGHTSVILLE PA
> >>>>717-252-4489 VOICE
> >>>>717-252-4499 FAX
> >>>>flmv@flmv.net E-MAIL
> >>>>MVPA #1833
> >>>>IMPS #1726
> >>>>MVT #9362
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> >>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> >>>>To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> >>>>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> >>
> >>--
> >>JEFF HAIN-MATSON
> >>FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES WEB SITE: http://www.flmv.net/
> >>WRIGHTSVILLE PA
> >>717-252-4489 VOICE
> >>717-252-4499 FAX
> >>flmv@flmv.net E-MAIL
> >>MVPA #1833
> >>IMPS #1726
> >>MVT #9362
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> > To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> >
>
> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
-- JEFF HAIN-MATSON FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES WEB SITE: http://www.flmv.net/ WRIGHTSVILLE PA 717-252-4489 VOICE 717-252-4499 FAX flmv@flmv.net E-MAIL MVPA #1833 IMPS #1726 MVT #9362
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