From: timothy.smith1@att.net
Date: Sat Dec 24 2005 - 22:01:28 PST
Sonny,
> Three years ago I turned my 1996 Freightliner Condo in to a recreational
I'm at home, waiting a bit to ensure the kidlets are asleep before going into
Santa-mode. So here goes.
> vehicle by stretching the frame slightly to accept an eight foot by fourteen
> foot aluminum box that I had on an old GMC cube van. My state, Florida, did
> a new title and etched a new vin number on the windshield and door glasses
> plus they put a data plate on the driver door post and gave me a title for a
> 2003 ASPT, which means, they say, that its assembled from parts.
So far, so good. But what is the nature of this box on the back? By this, I
mean externally does it look like a cargo container(?) because an officer might
reasonably assume it's there to haul cargo, like a dromedary. (For those of you
who do not know what a "dromedary" is, it is a cargo box behind the cab of the
tractor. The SIZE of the box is not limited. They are often used to segregate
some types of explosives on a single truck's load...like having a load of 1.4
explosives in the van, while hauling the blasting caps in the dromedary.) Or,
does it have a finished look more like the huge sleeper (apartment, actually!)
one occasionally sees on the super moving van trucks?
> I somehow got lucky enough to turn out an RV Toter which makes the ones
> manufactured up around Elkhart, In. and some other places including Texas
> look less than finished, IMHO.
Ok, by "RV toter" you mean a truck-tractor tricked-out to haul an RV? I ask you
this, because if we are talking the same language here, an RV toter is designed
PRIMARILY to "tote" or haul an RV. If the box you put on the same chassis
behind the cab has been finished out to provide for overnight accomodation (i.e.
beds, plumbing..all the stuff a traditionally manufactured "RV" has-) then your
truck IS an RV as a stand-alone vehicle. (For the moment, I'm presuming the box
you converted into an RV has no space in it designated for hauling cargo.)
For example, let's say a guy has one of those big tour-the-universe RV motor
home buses that are all set up like the Taj Majal, but he has a receiver hitch
on it that he uses to pull a pop-up camper (for his mother-in-law). His RV
ain't no RV-toter, brother...it qualifies as an RV as a stand-alone vehicle.
So for the moment, let's stop calling your truck an RV-toter and let's just call
it an RV and, so we can get to some answers, let's also say, for the moment,
that you aren't pulling anything.
So, if Sonny is driving to San Antonio for a vacation in his RV (a truck tractor
modified into an RV) and he isn't pulling anything, and he qualifies for the RV
exemption to CDL -BUT- (at least by Texas law) he's going to need at least a
Class B non-CDL license, because the tractor has a GVWR over 26,001#.
Under the circumstances, he's engaging in NO commercial enterprise so his
vehicle is not subject to the FMCSR's, so he's not subject to roadside
inspection -BUT- given the nature of his truck (in that it doesn't look like a
traditional RV and it looks more like a cargo truck, converted or otherwise)
Sonny might be getting pulled over for (1) passing by a scales, or (2) because a
DOT inspector wants to find out what purpose Sonny's truck is being driven FOR.
> I have a two and five sixteenth inch ball for my gooseneck trailer under a
> closed plate when not in use. I also have a class three hitch mounted under
> the rear of it.
>
> I'm strictly a collector of motorscooters, motorcycles, old farm tractors,
> and military vehicles among other things too numerous to go in to. I do not
> sell anything at the shows I attend, I only exibit for free. I do not ask
> for nor would I accept donations just to make myself clear on that.
OK, WHAT do you exhibit and WHY do you exhibit them? This endeavor sounds very
expensive for a hobby, so a fair question roadside would be a question
formulated to determine if the movement of the vehicles you collect, to and
from, is for the purpose of (1) receiving some form of payment or benefit
immediately or at a later date or (2) for promoting some other type of business
endeavor.
This is not to say that one cannot legitimately have expensive hobbies, but
realistically, those folks are really few and far between. I just read about
some guy who flies his personal P-51 Mustang to and from work every day (the
bastard!), so guys with expensive hobbies ARE out there.
> My RV is thirty eight foot long from bumper to bumper and my longest trailer
> is a thirty two foot gooseneck. Sometimes I drag a sixteen foot closed in
> trailer if I go to a scooter meet for example, but usually I have either no
> trailer or I have the gooseneck with maybe a deuce and a half or a HMMWV and
> a tractor.
>
> My trailer is rated at 25000 pound with two axles and eight tires, four on
> each axle.
STOP! Ok, now we'll add your gooseneck to the RV. The RV nature of your truck
has not changed but, now it's hauling a vehicle (trailer) whose purpose is for
hauling cargo. (Stand-alone RV vehicles are NOT cargo haulers and this is one
of the BIG reasons why they can breeze by scales and are usually ignored by DOT
guys. Unless of course, as in your case, it's not readily identifiable as
having been converted to an RV).
So, back to the driver's license question. In this scenario, Sonny is still
going on vacation. His RV is now pulling a vehicle designed to haul cargo.
He's a vehicle in combination; his trailer is over 10,000# GVWR so we get to add
it to the total GCVWR -BUT- he's STILL an RV, right? Right! Nothing says a guy
with an RV with no cargo carrying ability has to leave his toys at home...so an
RV CAN pull a trailer and STILL be an RV. So, Sonny still qualifies for his RV
exemption from CDL but NOW he needs a Class A non-CDL because of the trailer.
I have never hauled, to my knowledge, more than 25000 pound
> including the trailer weight. The trailer has electric, 12 volt DC, brakes
> activated by a Techonsha (sp) brake controller operated through the cold
> side of the brake light switch on the RV. Both trailers are 2003 as well as
> the truck.
>
> Now TJ, am I mandated to stop at weigh stations in your state of Texas and
> if not, would you if this was your set up?
YES, particularly if you are pulling the big gooseneck. For this part of the
question, let me explain in this way...
(1) Your truck is converted into a legitimate RV. But it might be mistaken for
a straight truck because it has what looks like a dry van on the back.
Therefore at a glance one might assume it's primary role is to haul cargo. Your
RV is going to attract the attention of every open weigh station you drive by
because it LOOKS like a cargo hauler...and can you blame them?
(2) With the big trailer you are now WELL within the realm of big cargo haulers
and you (even as a legitimate RV) are now equipped to HAUL cargo...so your
combination vehicle equipped to haul cargo (and remember, the topic at this
moment has nothing to do with driver's license law) has the comoplete and
undivided attention of the guys at the weigh station.
I have nothing to hide, consider
> myself to be totally safe and hold a class A CDL. I do not get an annual
> DOT medical check, and my health is good, so far anyway. I have stenciled on
> the side of the original sleeper "Recreational Vehicle, Not for Hire" on
> both sides.
OK, let's talk about "Recreational Vehicle" and "Not for Hire" for a moment.
To a DOT inspector, the phrase "Not for Hire" don't mean diddly-damned squat.
For example, if Sonny was hauling his own stuff in a business enterprise (and
wasn't interested in hauling other people's stuff for money) in the rig we have
discussed up to this point, he WOULD be subject to the FMCSR's but he wouldn't
be "for hire". So the phrase "Not for Hire" is a waste if it is displayed in
the hopes of throwing some DOT guy off the scent. I daresay, when I see "Not
for Hire" on the side of a truck, I suddenly become terribly interested in
finding out why that big truck is on the road.
Pretty much the same thing applies with the term "Recreational Vehicle." I'll
give you an example of an RV that might fall under the FMCSR's. Remember the
dude with the Taj Majal RV? Well let's keep it simple and say his RV has a GVWR
of 26,001# -BUT- he drives it all over the place for the purpose of
demonstrating and taking orders for RONCO Turnip Twaddlers and THAT IS A
BUSINESS ENDEAVOR. My friends, he drives the Taj Majal primarily because he
doesn't like sleeping at Motel 6 and THAT makes the Taj Majal an RV and that is
an exemption from CDL -BUT- the Taj Majal is being USED IN COMMERCE and that
makes it subject to the FMCSR's and therefore subject to roadside inspection.
(and, for the paranoids in this group, NO I don't chase down and stop Taj Majal
RV's. With so many traditional commercial motor vehicles on the road, why would
I bother?)
I do keep my truck in "ready for the road" condition since I've
> been in that field basically all my life. I retired from the Army in 1982
> as a Chief Warrant Officer, Automotive Maintenance Technician so I just
> don't trust my maintenance to anyone and will not as long as I'm physically
> able to do it myself, although I'll admit that some things are cheaper to
> have hired as I did last week getting an inner wheel seal put in but I was
> right there helping the mechanic as he is a good friend. I also let him do
> my brakes simply because it makes me feel better but some things I do the
> second time after I get my OJT from him. I never had full air brakes when I
> was in the "machine". They were always air over hydralic so I don't have
> much experience with full air. My truck has the newer, so I'm told, brake
> chambers that adjust automatically but when I replaced the shoes and springs
> last week he adjusted them initially or else it would take the automatic
> adjusters too long to get them adjusted. Is this normal?
Yes they must be adjusted initially after new brake linings are installed. And
as for use after that, well, we have a saying about automatic slack adjusters
and it goes like this..
"Automatic slack adjusters ain't." Meaning, they aren't taking up the slack
"automatically" about 50 percent of the time. "Slack" is created as the brake
linings are worn away through use and it is the job of the slack adjusters to
bring the shoes back into close proximity to the face of the drum. They need to
be greased regularly as they are in a harsh environment and if they aren't kept
clean and lubed (on the inside), they bind up.
> TJ, tell me if I need to change anything I'm doing please.
Well, without being too bold, I'd like to know if your travels with this rig
earn you some kind of income, either directly or indirectly. It has been my
experience that many guys asking for advice have a tendency to offer only the
information they feel will get them the answer they desire. So, of course, I am
cautious and curious.
Merry Christmas all!
TJ
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