From: Sonny Heath (sonny@defuniak.com)
Date: Sun Dec 25 2005 - 09:54:16 PST
TJ,
First of all let me just say, that you have, with your post, cleared up
every single thing that I have wondered about for a long time. I can't
thank you enough for clearing this up.
To clear up a couple of things you mentioned, yes, my RV with the box added
to it looks just about exactly like any other RV that you see booking down
the hiway, such as awning on the right side, two sliding windows over my
convertable couch bed on the right side, water heater cover, refridgerator
cover, furnace exhaust, storage compartment door, liquid petroleum access
door, all on right side, then on left side you can see the big sliding
window about 4'X4' by the dining area, a small sliding window at the
bathroom area, storage door, access door for electrical access, the sewage
and gray water drains, access door for potable water, access door for
battery compartment. On the roof can be seen the air conditioner, fridge
vent, bathroom vent, TV antenna. On the back deck can be seen the bar-b-que
grill, the ladder going to the roof, the 8000 watt diesel generator cover,
oh and I almost forgot, on the back wall can be seen the entire wall covered
with old collectables such as oil signs, Harley Davidson tag, POW-MIA, you
are not forgotten tag, flag holders, truck name emblems from several
countries, Texas iron stars, furnace cover from 1930, and among other stuff
my seven P's three inches high made of solid brass which mean "Precise Prior
Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".
My wife complains about not enough storage space in the RV as it is so no,
there is nor one inch for hauling anything other than personal needs.
What I mean by RV Toter is that my vehicle is an RV which will also tote a
trailer that most motorhomes cannot tote, nothing more, nothing less.
This vehicle does not bring me one cent either directly or indirectly and
you would learn that if you walked up to me either as someone I know or a
total rank stranger and asked "Do you sell anything you haul on that trailer
or RV?" My honest answer would be "No, I'm a collector showing for free the
way things used to be"
MV content: I enjoy collecting militaria and the comeradeship that is
associated with it and guess what? My sweet wife got me something militaria
for Christmas, an OD green whistle. I told her I had been awaken by one of
those a many a time.
Tomorrows first item of business will be to "REMOVE" the "Not For Hire"
lettering from my RV and maybe even the RV one as well. haven't decided on
that one yet.
When I head to Texas for my first military show there I will try to come to
your station or better yet, urge you to go with me. Many Thanks TJ
I will take some digital flicks of my rig tomorrow and see if my wife can
figure out how to get them on the list for yall to see. I meant to do it
the other day when I had it out for the wheel seal because I promised Jon
that I would do it but it totally skipped my mind.
Sonny
----- Original Message -----
From: <timothy.smith1@att.net>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] Truck Turned Recreation Vehicle
> Sonny,
> I'm at home, waiting a bit to ensure the kidlets are asleep before going
> into
> Santa-mode. So here goes.
>
>> Three years ago I turned my 1996 Freightliner Condo in to a recreational
>> vehicle by stretching the frame slightly to accept an eight foot by
>> fourteen
>> foot aluminum box that I had on an old GMC cube van. My state, Florida,
>> did
>> a new title and etched a new vin number on the windshield and door
>> glasses
>> plus they put a data plate on the driver door post and gave me a title
>> for a
>> 2003 ASPT, which means, they say, that its assembled from parts.
>
> So far, so good. But what is the nature of this box on the back? By
> this, I
> mean externally does it look like a cargo container(?) because an officer
> might
> reasonably assume it's there to haul cargo, like a dromedary. (For those
> of you
> who do not know what a "dromedary" is, it is a cargo box behind the cab of
> the
> tractor. The SIZE of the box is not limited. They are often used to
> segregate
> some types of explosives on a single truck's load...like having a load of
> 1.4
> explosives in the van, while hauling the blasting caps in the dromedary.)
> Or,
> does it have a finished look more like the huge sleeper (apartment,
> actually!)
> one occasionally sees on the super moving van trucks?
>
>> I somehow got lucky enough to turn out an RV Toter which makes the ones
>> manufactured up around Elkhart, In. and some other places including Texas
>> look less than finished, IMHO.
>
> Ok, by "RV toter" you mean a truck-tractor tricked-out to haul an RV? I
> ask you
> this, because if we are talking the same language here, an RV toter is
> designed
> PRIMARILY to "tote" or haul an RV. If the box you put on the same chassis
> behind the cab has been finished out to provide for overnight accomodation
> (i.e.
> beds, plumbing..all the stuff a traditionally manufactured "RV" has-) then
> your
> truck IS an RV as a stand-alone vehicle. (For the moment, I'm presuming
> the box
> you converted into an RV has no space in it designated for hauling cargo.)
>
> For example, let's say a guy has one of those big tour-the-universe RV
> motor
> home buses that are all set up like the Taj Majal, but he has a receiver
> hitch
> on it that he uses to pull a pop-up camper (for his mother-in-law). His
> RV
> ain't no RV-toter, brother...it qualifies as an RV as a stand-alone
> vehicle.
>
> So for the moment, let's stop calling your truck an RV-toter and let's
> just call
> it an RV and, so we can get to some answers, let's also say, for the
> moment,
> that you aren't pulling anything.
>
> So, if Sonny is driving to San Antonio for a vacation in his RV (a truck
> tractor
> modified into an RV) and he isn't pulling anything, and he qualifies for
> the RV
> exemption to CDL -BUT- (at least by Texas law) he's going to need at least
> a
> Class B non-CDL license, because the tractor has a GVWR over 26,001#.
>
> Under the circumstances, he's engaging in NO commercial enterprise so his
> vehicle is not subject to the FMCSR's, so he's not subject to roadside
> inspection -BUT- given the nature of his truck (in that it doesn't look
> like a
> traditional RV and it looks more like a cargo truck, converted or
> otherwise)
> Sonny might be getting pulled over for (1) passing by a scales, or (2)
> because a
> DOT inspector wants to find out what purpose Sonny's truck is being driven
> FOR.
>
>> I have a two and five sixteenth inch ball for my gooseneck trailer under
>> a
>> closed plate when not in use. I also have a class three hitch mounted
>> under
>> the rear of it.
>>
>> I'm strictly a collector of motorscooters, motorcycles, old farm
>> tractors,
>> and military vehicles among other things too numerous to go in to. I do
>> not
>> sell anything at the shows I attend, I only exibit for free. I do not
>> ask
>> for nor would I accept donations just to make myself clear on that.
>
> OK, WHAT do you exhibit and WHY do you exhibit them? This endeavor sounds
> very
> expensive for a hobby, so a fair question roadside would be a question
> formulated to determine if the movement of the vehicles you collect, to
> and
> from, is for the purpose of (1) receiving some form of payment or benefit
> immediately or at a later date or (2) for promoting some other type of
> business
> endeavor.
>
> This is not to say that one cannot legitimately have expensive hobbies,
> but
> realistically, those folks are really few and far between. I just read
> about
> some guy who flies his personal P-51 Mustang to and from work every day
> (the
> bastard!), so guys with expensive hobbies ARE out there.
>
>> My RV is thirty eight foot long from bumper to bumper and my longest
>> trailer
>> is a thirty two foot gooseneck. Sometimes I drag a sixteen foot closed
>> in
>> trailer if I go to a scooter meet for example, but usually I have either
>> no
>> trailer or I have the gooseneck with maybe a deuce and a half or a HMMWV
>> and
>> a tractor.
>>
>> My trailer is rated at 25000 pound with two axles and eight tires, four
>> on
>> each axle.
>
> STOP! Ok, now we'll add your gooseneck to the RV. The RV nature of your
> truck
> has not changed but, now it's hauling a vehicle (trailer) whose purpose is
> for
> hauling cargo. (Stand-alone RV vehicles are NOT cargo haulers and this is
> one
> of the BIG reasons why they can breeze by scales and are usually ignored
> by DOT
> guys. Unless of course, as in your case, it's not readily identifiable as
> having been converted to an RV).
>
> So, back to the driver's license question. In this scenario, Sonny is
> still
> going on vacation. His RV is now pulling a vehicle designed to haul
> cargo.
> He's a vehicle in combination; his trailer is over 10,000# GVWR so we get
> to add
> it to the total GCVWR -BUT- he's STILL an RV, right? Right! Nothing says
> a guy
> with an RV with no cargo carrying ability has to leave his toys at
> home...so an
> RV CAN pull a trailer and STILL be an RV. So, Sonny still qualifies for
> his RV
> exemption from CDL but NOW he needs a Class A non-CDL because of the
> trailer.
>
> I have never hauled, to my knowledge, more than 25000 pound
>> including the trailer weight. The trailer has electric, 12 volt DC,
>> brakes
>> activated by a Techonsha (sp) brake controller operated through the cold
>> side of the brake light switch on the RV. Both trailers are 2003 as well
>> as
>> the truck.
>>
>> Now TJ, am I mandated to stop at weigh stations in your state of Texas
>> and
>> if not, would you if this was your set up?
>
> YES, particularly if you are pulling the big gooseneck. For this part of
> the
> question, let me explain in this way...
> (1) Your truck is converted into a legitimate RV. But it might be
> mistaken for
> a straight truck because it has what looks like a dry van on the back.
> Therefore at a glance one might assume it's primary role is to haul cargo.
> Your
> RV is going to attract the attention of every open weigh station you drive
> by
> because it LOOKS like a cargo hauler...and can you blame them?
>
> (2) With the big trailer you are now WELL within the realm of big cargo
> haulers
> and you (even as a legitimate RV) are now equipped to HAUL cargo...so your
> combination vehicle equipped to haul cargo (and remember, the topic at
> this
> moment has nothing to do with driver's license law) has the comoplete and
> undivided attention of the guys at the weigh station.
>
> I have nothing to hide, consider
>> myself to be totally safe and hold a class A CDL. I do not get an annual
>> DOT medical check, and my health is good, so far anyway. I have stenciled
>> on
>> the side of the original sleeper "Recreational Vehicle, Not for Hire" on
>> both sides.
>
> OK, let's talk about "Recreational Vehicle" and "Not for Hire" for a
> moment.
>
> To a DOT inspector, the phrase "Not for Hire" don't mean diddly-damned
> squat.
> For example, if Sonny was hauling his own stuff in a business enterprise
> (and
> wasn't interested in hauling other people's stuff for money) in the rig we
> have
> discussed up to this point, he WOULD be subject to the FMCSR's but he
> wouldn't
> be "for hire". So the phrase "Not for Hire" is a waste if it is displayed
> in
> the hopes of throwing some DOT guy off the scent. I daresay, when I see
> "Not
> for Hire" on the side of a truck, I suddenly become terribly interested in
> finding out why that big truck is on the road.
>
> Pretty much the same thing applies with the term "Recreational Vehicle."
> I'll
> give you an example of an RV that might fall under the FMCSR's. Remember
> the
> dude with the Taj Majal RV? Well let's keep it simple and say his RV has
> a GVWR
> of 26,001# -BUT- he drives it all over the place for the purpose of
> demonstrating and taking orders for RONCO Turnip Twaddlers and THAT IS A
> BUSINESS ENDEAVOR. My friends, he drives the Taj Majal primarily because
> he
> doesn't like sleeping at Motel 6 and THAT makes the Taj Majal an RV and
> that is
> an exemption from CDL -BUT- the Taj Majal is being USED IN COMMERCE and
> that
> makes it subject to the FMCSR's and therefore subject to roadside
> inspection.
> (and, for the paranoids in this group, NO I don't chase down and stop Taj
> Majal
> RV's. With so many traditional commercial motor vehicles on the road, why
> would
> I bother?)
>
> I do keep my truck in "ready for the road" condition since I've
>> been in that field basically all my life. I retired from the Army in
>> 1982
>> as a Chief Warrant Officer, Automotive Maintenance Technician so I just
>> don't trust my maintenance to anyone and will not as long as I'm
>> physically
>> able to do it myself, although I'll admit that some things are cheaper to
>> have hired as I did last week getting an inner wheel seal put in but I
>> was
>> right there helping the mechanic as he is a good friend. I also let him
>> do
>> my brakes simply because it makes me feel better but some things I do the
>> second time after I get my OJT from him. I never had full air brakes
>> when I
>> was in the "machine". They were always air over hydralic so I don't have
>> much experience with full air. My truck has the newer, so I'm told,
>> brake
>> chambers that adjust automatically but when I replaced the shoes and
>> springs
>> last week he adjusted them initially or else it would take the automatic
>> adjusters too long to get them adjusted. Is this normal?
>
> Yes they must be adjusted initially after new brake linings are installed.
> And
> as for use after that, well, we have a saying about automatic slack
> adjusters
> and it goes like this..
> "Automatic slack adjusters ain't." Meaning, they aren't taking up the
> slack
> "automatically" about 50 percent of the time. "Slack" is created as the
> brake
> linings are worn away through use and it is the job of the slack adjusters
> to
> bring the shoes back into close proximity to the face of the drum. They
> need to
> be greased regularly as they are in a harsh environment and if they aren't
> kept
> clean and lubed (on the inside), they bind up.
>
>> TJ, tell me if I need to change anything I'm doing please.
>
> Well, without being too bold, I'd like to know if your travels with this
> rig
> earn you some kind of income, either directly or indirectly. It has been
> my
> experience that many guys asking for advice have a tendency to offer only
> the
> information they feel will get them the answer they desire. So, of
> course, I am
> cautious and curious.
>
> Merry Christmas all!
> TJ
>
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